Constitution

You see the problem that keeps coming up is that teams are losing players so should they drop divisions?
Foxes and sparta moshdock have thus complaint.
If a team wins division 7 but then loses a few players, would we all be happy to let them continue in division 7? No we wouldnt! So why should it be any different with the prem.
As for moshdock, its a shame you've lost a few players but if you are a lower division quality team then you will struggle on this season and be relegated at the end of the season. Then you'll be in the division you feel is right.
As for ourselves, I dont believe we are as good as any team in that 12 at the moment. Division 1 is fair in my eyes. If we were to be placed in the prem then we would give it our best, but in all honesty, we're not as good as the other 12 nor are we as good as half of the division 1

oily wrote:

Whats happend to most of your lads.
Been together for a few years now.

When the reserves idea was banded about everyone was staying. But when we realised we couldn't get enough players to have a proper first team squad capable of seeing the season out, discussions changed and the newer lads, a lot of credit to them, agreed it was best for us to go back to the original team of mates as that is what Sunday football should be about. So they agreed it was the right time to move on.

It's a shame for the club, but it felt the right time to make the move after going out on a high with the Billy Walton win. We see it as a new (old) era for the club and one which best secured the future of the club on a whole.

monsellwmc wrote:

You see the problem that keeps coming up is that teams are losing players so should they drop divisions?
Foxes and sparta moshdock have thus complaint.
If a team wins division 7 but then loses a few players, would we all be happy to let them continue in division 7? No we wouldnt! So why should it be any different with the prem.
As for moshdock, its a shame you've lost a few players but if you are a lower division quality team then you will struggle on this season and be relegated at the end of the season. Then you'll be in the division you feel is right.
As for ourselves, I dont believe we are as good as any team in that 12 at the moment. Division 1 is fair in my eyes. If we were to be placed in the prem then we would give it our best, but in all honesty, we're not as good as the other 12 nor are we as good as half of the division 1

We fully understand this viewpoint, and also understand they people will throw the pot hunting accusations our way. However, we feel that it's a slightly different situation as this is what would have been our reserve team, so in essence it's a completely different team.

Put it this way, if we had come in as a reserve team and been put in division 2 or 3, would anyone of moaned? Also, we could have been devious, and folded and returned as a different team, but we wanted to be honest with the league and the other clubs.

I do get what your saying, but can't see how it's advantageous to anyone if we know we would be relegated from the offset. Trying to persuade players, who by their own admittance, are not comfortable at that level, to turn up and play week in week out to lose is an almost impossible job. Don't get me wrong, if we were put in the Prem, we would do everything in our power to see out the season, as we would never want to fold, but this would be very difficult.

As I said, I fully understand your viewpoint, I guess it's a matter of opinions.

its tough guys the lads today seem to get tempted away more often than back in the day,just a sign of the times.i sympathise with moshdock and foxes but sometimes it may be better to have a fresh start once the rot sets in you are fighting a losing battle.fair play for trying to do the right thing though hope it works out.

Thanks mate. And it mean no disrespect to Foxes, as they know as I spoke to them as well, but I do see what we are doing as very different. And we don't feel it is fair if what other teams have done previously impacts on us doing something (even when it's a different scenario).

hayden1 wrote:

Hi its Hayden Jones KNIGHTON PARK FC sec firstly would like to defend myself at the meeting there were many many people taking not just me so perfetic argument over ...

secondly for all you curious people out there who cant live without knowing who we have playing for us i have a 22 man squad of who i and my manager will be picking 18 final wes thorne and al giles and 3 more div 7 quality players are the only alliance league experienced players i have we have a very young bunch majority have not played since under 18s 2 years ago or 1st season in mens football ...

so there you have it gents im afraid youre accusations were false but thanks for enquiring... fully expected the response from certain negative people with nothing better to do i have faith in the commitee to place clubs in correct divisions

dont let them get you down son,the league commitee aint daft seen it all before,youll get put where you belong and hopefully climb the leagues .good luck

I personally believe that somewhere along the line, like it or not, a decision has to be made by the league whether its "top level of support" lies with existing clubs, or in attracting/introducing new clubs.
My reasoning is 2 fold:
1) despite statements to the contrary, more teams DOES have an impact on existing sides. The pool of players available diminishes and even daft things like the level of competition for the limited sponsorship still available comes in to play. Take for example a "typical scenario" that we will all have known/understand: season ends and a few players retire or go to uni etc.. Team X have just formed and in doing so there is 17/18 players that they have signed on that otherwise would have been available to approach to replace the players that left, thus keeping the team going smoothly.

2) As is evident in the current efforts re: the constitution, some existing sides are going to be shocked and concerned with their league placements this season in an effort (which is much needed and I highly support) to get the right number of teams/competitivity etc.. in all divisions. HOWEVER their is another way... Rather than a blanket acceptance of teams, it COULD be done that teams could be accepted to "fill the gaps currently available" rather than existing teams moving up to fill those gaps and a new side taking their "right place"

Now the above is written in favour of supporting the existing clubs, I AM NOT SAYING THAT IS THE ANSWER. I merely needed to pick a side to explain the need for a decision one way or another. It could just as easily be argued that "these old teams are dying and the future is with the new clubs. BUT what I do know is that, like anything, the resources are not increasing (players, sponsorship etc..) at the same rate of acceptance of new sides so simply without making such a decision "something has to give"

I like point 2) from LKFC but this is an idealistic view and only works if clubs are good to their word.

For example, not including those sides that folded part way through last season there are 11 sides that finished 2013/14 that won't be starting 2014/15 of theses and Gordon could give the exact numbers but from memory no more than 4 gave their intention to resign by the normal Feb Deadline.

At least 5 of these clubs have only decided they arent carrying on in the last month. At least one in the last week.

With this level of uncertainity the gaps could be ever changing and this year we have had only a couple of new sides that are capable of competing in the top two leagues. While Div's 6/7 would be full.

I know we could turn away new sides such as Knighton FC - clearly a div 6/7 side (not picking on you mate just an example) but they would then either have to accept a slot in say Div 4, go to another league or give up on the idea. By the time existing clubs have deicided what they are doing the new club would be so far down the line they wont give up and would join another league so the problem of them taking players/sponsorship etc does go away, we end of reducing in size as a league as a result.
If we didnt move new clubs up above where they "should" go this coming seasons Prem would be 4 teams!!!

There are no easy solutions and I like the above suggestions, if the solution was easy we wouldnt be having such interesting debates

But surely the league should help existing clubs? I heard my team may get promoted despite finishing NINTH. If that is true I will lose players, they struggled last season. Then a new team comes in and goes in a lower division. Again established gets penalised and bend over for the new boys. It is difficult I understand that, majority of new teams I guess are honest. But look after the clubs help the league grow

Bretty1... your not understanding whats going on... every team will be moved up a division or 2 because of the lack of teams in the top 2 divisions. You will still be playing in a similar standard football, just with a different number above the league table

If the league really wanted to expand the prem they should make it 12 team prem offer a free affiliation to new premier teams and current teams or current teams or promotion teams should get 2/3 free signing on books which are £££££££s anyway

bretty1 wrote:

With the constitution again looming, who are favs to fold on the day? Who will threaten to leave if not in division they want to be in. What teams will be promoted/ not relegated to make way for new teams? Looking forward to the mr angrys on Thursday morning

Niffy ?

Yes magician, niffy. Monsell I understand totally what's goin on, but the major annoyance is that we keep on getting new teams of a certain standard (or old re vamped teams under new name) . It seems to affect established teams that are tryin to push forward but get set backs. How many new clubs would just jack it if they were informed they were being put in a division above there standard. Ash well whatever happens no doubt we will be about.

Agree bretty same old teams reforming and getting under the radar again and again with still no
solution from the league.
If your going to struggle then we will certainly struggle as you beat us twice and were going up 2 leagues.
Will our players be getting out of bed in december to get murdered i think not.
But on moshdocks point frolesworth went down the leagues last year after threatening
to resign after losing players and look what they did.
Even if 4-5 players left moshdock they probably still have better players than us.

as far as I am aware the constitution hasn't been finalised yet.

and I'm not sure there are many teams who keep reforming - I don't recall that many. those that do are judged on their merits and very few get put in the wrong division. i think the last one that caused a big issue was Fairfield Dynamo and they didn't even win their division!

oily wrote:

Agree bretty same old teams reforming and getting under the radar again and again with still no
solution from the league.
If your going to struggle then we will certainly struggle as you beat us twice and were going up 2 leagues.
Will our players be getting out of bed in december to get murdered i think not.
But on moshdocks point frolesworth went down the leagues last year after threatening
to resign after losing players and look what they did.
Even if 4-5 players left moshdock they probably still have better players than us.

Again, understand your points, but it's not 4-5 leaving, its 14 leaving. That means there will be 4/5 left from last season.

Who are the 4-5 staying?
And where have the 14 gone?

oily wrote:

Agree bretty same old teams reforming and getting under the radar again and again with still no
solution from the league.
If your going to struggle then we will certainly struggle as you beat us twice and were going up 2 leagues.
Will our players be getting out of bed in december to get murdered i think not.
But on moshdocks point frolesworth went down the leagues last year after threatening
to resign after losing players and look what they did.
Even if 4-5 players left moshdock they probably still have better players than us.

We didn't threaten to resign.

monsellwmc wrote:

Who are the 4-5 staying?
And where have the 14 gone?

The players who signed on last year that are staying are:
Jack Dandolo
Josh Richards
Sam Gillespie
Steve Morley
Dan Sharman

These are lads that have been around from the start and not 'big name' players we've signed since, if you like. Apart from Dan Sharman and Steve Morley (start of the season), none were regulars either due to injury or not getting in. From the team that started the Billy Walton final against S&G, only 1 player is staying.

As for the other 14, some have stopped playing and I'm not sure where others are going. I've heard some may be joining S&G but can't confirm.

FEAR_FUFC wrote:

oily wrote:

Agree bretty same old teams reforming and getting under the radar again and again with still no
solution from the league.
If your going to struggle then we will certainly struggle as you beat us twice and were going up 2 leagues.
Will our players be getting out of bed in december to get murdered i think not.
But on moshdocks point frolesworth went down the leagues last year after threatening
to resign after losing players and look what they did.
Even if 4-5 players left moshdock they probably still have better players than us.

We didn't threaten to resign.

.

But you also didn't lose players....you regained lots of the quality ones you had from before.

spartamoshdock wrote:

monsellwmc wrote:

Who are the 4-5 staying?
And where have the 14 gone?

The players who signed on last year that are staying are:
Jack Dandolo
Josh Richards
Sam Gillespie
Steve Morley
Dan Sharman

These are lads that have been around from the start and not 'big name' players we've signed since, if you like. Apart from Dan Sharman and Steve Morley (start of the season), none were regulars either due to injury or not getting in. From the team that started the Billy Walton final against S&G, only 1 player is staying.

As for the other 14, some have stopped playing and I'm not sure where others are going. I've heard some may be joining S&G but can't confirm.

Send those guys to Fosse for another crack at the Prem!

You need to get the first constitution completed and sent out to the club secretary's asap. The last thing we want is teams dropping out 2-3 weeks before the season starts. If they drop out now then it gives you more time to shuffle it around before the start.

hi all i am the joint manager at tomlin allstars i believe the answer is simple you start at the bottom and work your way through the leagues regardeless who is signed if you finish top 2 promotion bottom 2 relegation its as simple as that it shouldnt be right that rumours of whose playing puts you straight in the top division as for teams losing players so dont think they can compete i say tuff see the season out and get relegated its not that hard!!

Only problem with that is how is that fair for the teams in the bottom division who want to either play for fun or build up gradually and have been there for a few seasons but getting better then just end up getting smashed by teams that should be further up the leagues?

it makes no difference really cause if there not challanging for promotion it makes no difference and if they are then they should want to play other strong teams you dont get prem/div1 players in the lower leagues and as for playing for fun go on ya local park and have a kick about whats the point in calling it a league if it doesnt matter where ya finish if the league can put u up 4 divisions or if ya loose 2 players ya can drop 3 divisions lol

The enjoyment of a competitive league. The point that didn't quite come across is they obviously will be challenging but build up steadily and improve rather than just be put into a division and smash it. What's the point in one or two teams running away with the league and not giving any of the other teams who have been in that division a chance to win it? Ruins the enjoyment if teams aren't in the right divisions and smash teams

no i agree its disheartning but if your complete new team then who can judge where ya should start in the league we have a first time secretery and first time manager nobody has seen any registration forms or players that have signed so how on that merrit can the league start us in the prem/ div 1 when we asked for 3/4 i just think it should be run like the proffesional leagues in the sense u winm ya league ya get promoted ya finish bottom ya get relegated

All sounds great, but then you still have the problem of teams winning divisions the pulling out only to re apply under a different name, different secretary and different manager.

cookie-monster wrote:

hi all i am the joint manager at tomlin allstars i believe the answer is simple you start at the bottom and work your way through the leagues regardeless who is signed if you finish top 2 promotion bottom 2 relegation its as simple as that it shouldnt be right that rumours of whose playing puts you straight in the top division as for teams losing players so dont think they can compete i say tuff see the season out and get relegated its not that hard!!

You sir, are what we like to call, a 'PotHunter'.

id love to be a pot hunter mate id love my trophy case full of diz 7 trophys but we asked for 3/4 and will be playing in prem/1 not complained but just put an opinion across ive also asked for frindlies to get the lads together and also let others see where were at!!!

pencil us in 13th july

cookie-monster wrote:

hi all i am the joint manager at tomlin allstars i believe the answer is simple you start at the bottom and work your way through the leagues regardeless who is signed if you finish top 2 promotion bottom 2 relegation its as simple as that it shouldnt be right that rumours of whose playing puts you straight in the top division as for teams losing players so dont think they can compete i say tuff see the season out and get relegated its not that hard!!

Not sure if this was aimed at us or not....but if you want to use your simplistic view that is fine with us as we finished 2nd bottom, so that is relegation for us. Thanks.

So "cookie monster" how come ur now in the prem/1?? What has the league seen from you that made them think you can compete in these divisions when other new teams are placed lower in the league? There must be something......

Blatently shows they want to come in the league to walk a lower division, else you wouldn't be on here complaining

the constitutions haven't been announced yet. How does anyone know they are in the Prem or Div 1?

Mark - Tomlin Allstars were part of the group spoken to by Morley following the AGM

your guess is as good as mine hairy prob because of sponser! we didnt want a low division maybe div 3 just because its our first season and needed to establish ourselves i know theres not a massive gap between the top 3 so will play in whatever league they put us in

No team should form a new team and start at the top every team has a aim I'm sure Tomlin aim is to reach the heights in the prem. but coming across prem too soon is very dangerous new teams need to build that togetherness build a squad Tomlin could be around for years if they went straight in prem could last weeks

Pete Mourinho wrote:

Mark - Tomlin Allstars were part of the group spoken to by Morley following the AGM

true, just didn't think anything was set in stone just yet