Leagues double standards.

Us at webbys asked for a free week as we had seven players missing due to commitments abroad two weeks before
the fixture and another three injured.
Firstly the league managed to rearrange another game for saffron lounge bar which they duely won.
Secondly they had no short notice and no extra travel or disruption as we cancelled pitch/ref etc in due time.
We had a similar occurance only a month ago and another unnamed side basically called the same shots
to cancel a game at only a day or twos notice without punishment due to so called f.a.cup comitments.
Although f.a.cup rounds and the fixtures were out many weeks before.
We have been hit with a fine and a points deduction which i find an absolute disgrace as it seems certain
sides can get away with anything and the smaller sides get spanked.
we are appealing to county f.a and fifa and cant see how we can lose but may cost us a few quid.
If we do lose the appeal we will pull out the league as this is how strongly we feel about the leagues double standards.

oily wrote:

Us at webbys asked for a free week as we had seven players missing due to commitments abroad two weeks before
the fixture and another three injured.
Firstly the league managed to rearrange another game for saffron lounge bar which they duely won.
Secondly they had no short notice and no extra travel or disruption as we cancelled pitch/ref etc in due time.
We had a similar occurance only a month ago and another unnamed side basically called the same shots
to cancel a game at only a day or twos notice without punishment due to so called f.a.cup comitments.
Although f.a.cup rounds and the fixtures were out many weeks before.
We have been hit with a fine and a points deduction which i find an absolute disgrace as it seems certain
sides can get away with anything and the smaller sides get spanked.
we are appealing to county f.a and fifa and cant see how we can lose but may cost us a few quid.
If we do lose the appeal we will pull out the league as this is how strongly we feel about the leagues double standards.

Totally agree with u mate,ive always said some teams get away with murder but others have to struggle but am affraid it will always be the same nothing we can do about it, its who you know.not what you know

Us at webbys asked for a free week as we had seven players missing due to commitments abroad two weeks before
the fixture and another three injured.
Firstly the league managed to rearrange another game for saffron lounge bar which they duely won.
Secondly they had no short notice and no extra travel or disruption as we cancelled pitch/ref etc in due time.
We had a similar occurance only a month ago and another unnamed side basically called the same shots
to cancel a game at only a day or twos notice without punishment due to so called f.a.cup comitments.
Although f.a.cup rounds and the fixtures were out many weeks before.
We have been hit with a fine and a points deduction which i find an absolute disgrace as it seems certain
sides can get away with anything and the smaller sides get spanked.
we are appealing to county f.a and fifa and cant see how we can lose but may cost us a few quid.
If we do lose the appeal we will pull out the league as this is how strongly we feel about the leagues double standards.


dont involve saff lounge until you know what you are on about, i could make you look very foolish, check the rearranged fixture for this week thread

saff never had a game rearranged at all, you have it all wrong

Hey up oily hope ur well pal... what a joke thats a disgrace really is wrong and some teams do get a way with murder and the league seem to jump threw hoops for teams representin in facup commitments etc. not reffering to saff lounge in anyway by the way. its teams like webbies that the legue should be keeping happy if any, been around years and never any trouble yet appreciation for you. joke mate.

I am fine jed hope your ok mate.
We should have been playing saff on that date but asked for a free
week that week through the reasons explained 2 weeks prior to the
fixture.
When the saff lounge bar v faifield fixture came out thought the league
was o.k. as they had arranged another game for them.
We have got a fine in line with sides that cancel on the day without
prior notice which dont understand.
Fairfield cancelled 2 days prior to our fixture no other game arranged.
Star and garter cancelled one day prior to a game no other fixture,
Both no fine no points deduction?
Why am i wrong to moan.
Luckily for our club that its ran properly and have a few pennies to fight
this fine and hopefully win.
Its about time dennis and committee realise its not just about certain big
clubs who play in the alliance.
I will stick to my guns and resign if we lose our appeal
We will pay the fine and none of our players will be banned unlike some clubs that wrap.

Proper club run by proper people, wish you all the best with this pal and it would be a great shame for webbies to resign. They really need to get a grip and realise its clubs like yours that make the alliance so great and they should be bending over backwards to help you out instead you get treated like sh** and our gonna be spending a lot of money fighting your corner i just hope its not in vein and you win this battle.

I agree with this. A few teams have cancelled the night before and seemingly got away with it. Sometimes it does seem like rules don't apply to certain clubs.

As for the FA Cup commitments, it is Sunday League and so should not be affected by Saturday football....even the suspensions don't overlap anymore.

Difficult to make a comment without knowing the full facts. The league does apply the same rules to everyone, trust me, NRI got fined and points deducted, plus other fines in the past and i am on the committee!

If your case is so clear cut then county Will back you. We Will see i guess. Hope it doesn't have too much of a detrimental effect on you guys

Car breakers had points off yet?? I remember thurmaston asking for a free week but got told they had to play so they had to call upon half the res players, total joke

wasn't car breakers in the Arthur Moore? If they broke a league fixture then i would expect them to lose a point.

I think the whole Fairfield thing is obviously still a bit of a wound. Can't comment on the webbys issue because that's between them and the league but the old chestnut of certain teams getting preferential treatment is total nonsense. I have attended numerous committee meetings and there is never any slant or bias that I have seen. I don't know if there is a list of these so called favourites, but I know in the recent past clubs like Advance, NRI and Polska have all been fined

Not just the fairfield thing that doesnt really come into it.
Just that we done everything we could have to cause minimum disruption to the
league and not turn up with 6-7 players to call it off on the day and we gave enough notice that the league could reschedule fixtures without too much hassle and we still get penalised.
As i say an appeal will go in with the f.a. and yes if not successfull we will resign and take the fine.

just to clarify though, you did break the rules and not fulfil a fixture? or did you ask for a free date before fixtures were out? Not trying to be awkward here, but if you broke a rule then i don't understand your complaint.

We had to sign about three players on a couple of weeks ago to fulfil a fixture, between all your players, surely you could have brought four lads in? or was it the quality of players you could bring in that made you try to cancel? just interested to know

spartamoshdock wrote:

I agree with this. A few teams have cancelled the night before and seemingly got away with it. Sometimes it does seem like rules don't apply to certain clubs.

As for the FA Cup commitments, it is Sunday League and so should not be affected by Saturday football....even the suspensions don't overlap anymore.

Saturday bans don't over run to Sundays anymore? Seems to not be the case for one of our lads!

Widds wrote:

wasn't car breakers in the Arthur Moore? If they broke a league fixture then i would expect them to lose a point.

prem sports.

hotshot66 wrote:

spartamoshdock wrote:

I agree with this. A few teams have cancelled the night before and seemingly got away with it. Sometimes it does seem like rules don't apply to certain clubs.

As for the FA Cup commitments, it is Sunday League and so should not be affected by Saturday football....even the suspensions don't overlap anymore.

Saturday bans don't over run to Sundays anymore? Seems to not be the case for one of our lads!

doesn't it depend on what the suspension is for?

I cut and paste my forum post at the time of the postponements due to FA Cup commitments earlier in the season


Let us put this thread into perspective.

This weekend is the First Qualifying Round of the FA Cup. A number of local clubs have progressed to this stage and will be playing their fixture. A number of players for those clubs also play their Sunday football in the Alliance League - which in itself is testimony to the strength and calibre of our League and our member clubs.

The FA Cup, as with other FA competitions operates a prize fund - if a team wins in the First Qualifying Round, they receive, according to the FA website, £3000. That is a considerable sum of money for a local club - just ask our club Secretaries and Treasurers.

Clubs are going to want to field their strongest possible teams, and those clubs, who may be making a payment to players, are going to demand that their players are in prime condition for the match. To achieve that condition does not include playing an Alliance League fixture some 20 hours beforehand. Consequently we had, and granted a request from two clubs to postpone their Friday night Alliance fixtures in respect to the Satuday clubs in the FA Cup.

and later

Having allowed 2 teams to postpone on Friday evening, and now with two replays to come, it was not worth facing more suggestions of treating some clubs differently to others, or one rule for one and another rule for others so I took the responsibility to postpone this match too.

I'm damned if I do and I'm damned if I don't.

All discipline decisions are made after consideration of the facts. Some decisions you will accept, others you will choose to mock, but there is certainly no principle of double standards, bias, or favouritism towards any single club.

If you really believe certain Committee members act to the contrary - you have the power to do something about it at the Annual General Meeting. I put in a fair amount of time and effort to promote and help administer the Alliance League - I am positive there are plenty of other interests away from it which I could very easily pursue.

Widds wrote:

i am on the committee!

OOOOOOH get you........ isn't Mary Markham still on the committee? and doesn't she still run webbys?

Hellboy wrote:

Widds wrote:

i am on the committee!

OOOOOOH get you........ isn't Mary Markham still on the committee? and doesn't she still run webbys?

Yes, Mary is a member of the League Management Committee and also the Secretary of Webbys Wanderers

Fishandchips wrote:

hotshot66 wrote:

spartamoshdock wrote:

I agree with this. A few teams have cancelled the night before and seemingly got away with it. Sometimes it does seem like rules don't apply to certain clubs.

As for the FA Cup commitments, it is Sunday League and so should not be affected by Saturday football....even the suspensions don't overlap anymore.

Saturday bans don't over run to Sundays anymore? Seems to not be the case for one of our lads!

doesn't it depend on what the suspension is for?

The standard punishment for an on-the-field offence will result in a suspension which is restricted to the day of the week the game was played.

However, suspensions arising out of a misconduct charge after being sent off, or after the game or by a club official apply to all football. To complicate matters further, in this case, the suspension will not only caver all football but the start and end date will be decided by the games played by the team concerned and not both Saturday and Sunday teams.

Widds.
I overlooked an occasion which i knew about but maybe reacted too late.
But on the same hand asked for a free date two weeks before the fixture
which may have been a little late but thought the league may have seen common sense
and a little slack rather than turn up on the day with six or seven players and postpone
on the day.Which carries the same penalty for most sides.
As for bringing in players none of our lads play saturdays apart from vets league and
most of our mates already play for alliance sides.
As for mary who happens to be my mum she tries to play by the rules and thats
why we can appeal as she runs a good club fines/pitch/refs always paid on time.

we also gave 2 weeks notice which is a lot more than the 1 and 2 days that a chosen few have got away with

what makes it worse is that we were not told until 3 days before the game that we could not cancel

now we are expected to play huncote this week after being given just 5 days notice

well i have a good mind to not bother, we have just got 185 quid in fines from the county thanks to a team full of ringers, which even the ref knew about but let go

im fed up of this corrupt 1 rule for 1, 1 rule for another corrupt league

rocket ledge wrote:

we also gave 2 weeks notice which is a lot more than the 1 and 2 days that a chosen few have got away with

what makes it worse is that we were not told until 3 days before the game that we could not cancel

now we are expected to play huncote this week after being given just 5 days notice

well i have a good mind to not bother, we have just got 185 quid in fines from the county thanks to a team full of ringers, which even the ref knew about but let go

im fed up of this corrupt 1 rule for 1, 1 rule for another corrupt league

Couldnt agree more mate

common sense is always welcomed, but the rules don't permit calling off a game with 2 weeks notice, so with respect to all concerned, even if it is 2 weeks you a breaking a rule.

if we want to start saying 'yes that's the rule but let's have some common sense' then there is no point in having these rules in the first place and then it turns into a free for all.

and with 5 days notice for a fixture, for years clubs have been told that if they happen to have a date where there is no apparent fixture for them, they should not presume that they will get a free date.

as for the Fairfield and S&G games, my personal opinion is that if Sunday teams fill their side full of Saturday players then tough luck, but that is just my opinion. I think the explanation the league gave at the time is fair enough - they made a decision and explained why. I can imagine the stick they would have got if they HADN'T allowed those clubs time off.

This is the best run league in the county without a doubt, and people should be careful what they wish for. I know someone who runs a side in another league and they had no ref turn up without explanation. He is still waiting some 8 weeks later for a reason why.

Polska legend II wrote:

common sense is always welcomed, but the rules don't permit calling off a game with 2 weeks notice, so with respect to all concerned, even if it is 2 weeks you a breaking a rule.

if we want to start saying 'yes that's the rule but let's have some common sense' then there is no point in having these rules in the first place and then it turns into a free for all.

and with 5 days notice for a fixture, for years clubs have been told that if they happen to have a date where there is no apparent fixture for them, they should not presume that they will get a free date.

as for the Fairfield and S&G games, my personal opinion is that if Sunday teams fill their side full of Saturday players then tough luck, but that is just my opinion. I think the explanation the league gave at the time is fair enough - they made a decision and explained why. I can imagine the stick they would have got if they HADN'T allowed those clubs time off.

This is the best run league in the county without a doubt, and people should be careful what they wish for. I know someone who runs a side in another league and they had no ref turn up without explanation. He is still waiting some 8 weeks later for a reason why.

You would say that

you are right, I would. but it is an informed opinion because I have seen what goes on behind the scenes

Given I have been training with Webbys for the past 5 or so weeks and given my affiliation with the league, i'm split on this one.

I know why Oily feels hard done by, but with regards to an appeal to the higher associations, I personally cant possibly see how it will be successful.

I am not saying they don't have valid reasons for the gripe when you consider what has passed before, but these people will no doubt look at the sanctions imposed by the league and why, but will do so for this case alone, in isolation of all other factors. To put simple if you broke the rules set out by the league, and the league imposed the allowed punishment. There is nothing possibly that can be done.

The fact that another team on another day may or may not have escaped punishment for something along similar lines is completely irrelevant to this incident.

What may happen as a result of another situation being highlighted to the FA in any appeal, is the league may be asked to answer why they took the cause of action they did with any other cases cited. But that does not mean that they have now handled this case incorrectly by the letter of the law.

I know people are referencing the case earlier in the season when a common sense approach was applied, and I had my fair say on that at the time, I believe it was handled incorrectly. But I can honestly say I have never witnessed any bias from any committee member towards any club, regardless of apparent status. The discipline committee is ran completely by people without club associations in order to negate any risk of that happening anyway.

I can assure you that it is much less hassle for the league to keep the Webbys / Polska / Moshdocks of this world than it is to try and recruit new one season wonders every year!

Its sad therefore that it has come to a place where it is being discussed on a public forum, and I am especially sad that it may come to the league losing what I regard as a great example of a club.

Mary / Oily / Jeoff all do a great job, and the players are a good bunch as well, so I only hope a happy resolution is found.

fair comments Mark - my only question would be why would Webbys accept and pay a £250 resignation fee when surely the original 'offence' would be much cheaper to accept and move on?

by the way, not necessarily saying we would 'accept it and move on' but just asking the question

Polska legend II wrote:

fair comments Mark - my only question would be why would Webbys accept and pay a £250 resignation fee when surely the original 'offence' would be much cheaper to accept and move on?

The total would be more than £250 - as the only way they say they would resign is if found "guilty" which mean they would have that fine added to the resignation fee.

I can see why they wont accept, I can see in this case they were dammed if they did (agreed to play), damned if they didn't (postponed).

But, my comments were mostly that if they broke league rules, for which Oily has near enough confirmed, I cant see how any other outcome will be possible.

I do however hope that somehow there is...

I think people need to accept that the FA Cup decision has been and gone, I didn't like it, still don't. But the league have made an acceptance based on what they clearly view as exceptional circumstances. They clearly believe that if they are asked why allowances were made, they can put a strong case forward (though lets be honest the FA are not going to criticize a league for making there showpiece stronger!).

Just as In Webbys case, they feel they can answer why they have imposed the sanctions they have.

The two cases, although similar in nature, will be judged on there own merits.

whats the point of being allowed a free week and not being allowed to give a full 2 weeks notice and then you see other clubs give 1 or 2 days notice and get away with it, the FACT is they had a team available but the players didnt want to risk injury

while the teams that gave 2 weeks notice could not possibly get a side together, its 1 rule for 1 and 1 rule for another, no matter which way you look at it and i think it is disgusting

it seems to me that the league are happy to keep the so called elite clubs happy but who cares about the also rans, the league can just fine them and they are small clubs so it doesnt matter

rocket ledge wrote:

whats the point of being allowed a free week and not being allowed to give a full 2 weeks notice and then you see other clubs give 1 or 2 days notice and get away with it, the FACT is they had a team available but the players didnt want to risk injury

while the teams that gave 2 weeks notice could not possibly get a side together, its 1 rule for 1 and 1 rule for another, no matter which way you look at it and i think it is disgusting

it seems to me that the league are happy to keep the so called elite clubs happy but who cares about the also rans, the league can just fine them and they are small clubs so it doesnt matter

How would you possibly judge 'elite clubs'. Especially in the case of Fairfield, this is there first season. Although yes it is generally accepted that they resemble Throops they are a completely new team in the yes of the league.

I also cant think of any other incidents were any so called "elite" club has been given another rule different to those of the other clubs. Though I could of course be wrong.

If your asking do I think 2 weeks notice is enough for a free date, I believe it is, as would probably the vast majority of people. apart form the fixtures / referee secretary who is responsible for trying to fix the impacts of such a short notice cancellation. But most importantly, that's not what it says in the rules.

it isn't one rule for one if Fairfield and S&G had - through their Saturday players - FA Cup commitments. This means it is a case with exceptional circumstances, whereas the others don't. The league will always get nailed on this season over this, and as I said whilst I don't personally agree with it, the explanation was given and not brushed under the carpet.

I could picture the stick the league would get if they have insisted on teams playing Friday fixtures. Can you imagine the stick? 'we were made to play a poxy Friday night game for a Sunday league when there was £5 grand at stake the following day...'

Fixtures are arranged many weeks in advance. Even the slightest change can have a big impact for the rest of the season. If people could pick and choose their free dates after fixtures had already been arranged then James would be even busier than he already is. That is why you are given a deadline.

Once the league start allowing teams to appeal for common sense they will just open them selves up to more issues (which we can see here).

I would say two main points here:

1) If you have a game and cancel two weeks before the game, the knock on effects could be quite big, with pitch share, inclement weather and many other influences on the fixtures list. Plus, if you have a game in two weeks against a title rival, and have a few players away, whats to stop you getting it as your free date just to assist you with winning the game?

2) Saying that you only get a five days notice to play a game isnt really true either....when you sign up to a Sunday football league, you are signing up to play football on SUNDAYS!!! We dont have a game at the moment a week on Sunday, and i have told all the lads to expect a game...fairly simple stuff

There have been two threats on here to withdraw clubs from the league because people dont like the fact they have been caught out for the rules....stick to your guns then...and watch, as you hand your notice in, the fall out when the league carries on exactly as it is...the clubs are not doing the senior committee members a favour by joining the league, Gordon doesnt get money for every club he accepts, James doesn't get corporate kick backs for rearranging fixtures at different grounds etc etc

From what i can gather, S&G and another team postponed their game and the uproar on here was huge, and now, the league is sticking to the rules (as Gordon said he would ages ago) and again the uproar is huge....lets just assume that it was a mistake to bend the rules for two clubs earlier in the season...this was rectified by the league saying they wouldnt do it again...this isnt a new rule thats jumped out from nowhere...

And again, teams that should have been given favouritism according to some accusations of corruptness on here:

Magna 73 (Kev Scheemer involved) - fined heavily, points deduction i believe, and the cost of washing the Advance Courier kit
NRI (Myself) - NRI fined and deducted points for a game in our first season, fined again for our reserves game last season. Numerous other fines incurred...
Webbys (Mary) - See this thread!!

As for the senior members of the committee being corrupt....just what did they gain from any of this (other than grief)...corruption suggests bribary, immoral decisions to benefit ones self etc....love to know what benefit was gained by these decisions!!

let's agree Widds that the word 'corrupt' is totally inexcusable in these cases and it is nothing of the sort

Polska legend II wrote:

let's agree Widds that the word 'corrupt' is totally inexcusable in these cases and it is nothing of the sort

Absolutely....otherwise if people took it seriously, there could be a number of legal cases to answer...!!!

Widds wrote:

Magna 73 (Kev Scheemer involved) - fined heavily, points deduction i believe, and the cost of washing the Advance Courier kit
NRI (Myself) - NRI fined and deducted points for a game in our first season, fined again for our reserves game last season. Numerous other fines incurred...
Webbys (Mary) - See this thread!!
!

You can add numerous fines for Trinderbox from last year when they were struggling for players badly, and Steve Kirk is the Vice Chairman. I think they had everything from insufficient players, no linesman, late kick off etc etc. Must have cost a small fortune..

If my memory serves me right, when John Buzzard was at Webbys they got kicked out of the cup along with a few other indiscipline problems.

The only person currently left is Mark Whait / Rob Crane and im pretty sure that Polska must have had some sort of fine in the past....Though I doubt it was a late press report

1 rule for a team that hasnt been applied to another

we will let clubs who have players playing in the fa cup call games off but we wont let others who have genuine reasons to call games off