Premier Division Problems !!

we have managed to give everyone game time but when you have 15/16 players of similar ability
it's difficult to plaese everyone every week.to have the same 14 players turn up every week would be heaven but it just doesn't happen

FC POCHIN wrote:

we have managed to give everyone game time but when you have 15/16 players of similar ability
it's difficult to plaese everyone every week.to have the same 14 players turn up every week would be heaven but it just doesn't happen

Completely off topic but have you signed baz Dovey yet?

the goalie wrote:

Totally disagree with the above comment, Absolute rubbish !!

Why should the management of a club be banned?. why not go further than that and ban the whole  league committee as well.
Because  they approve all signings and transfers made by managers.

I have been responsible for my clubs running for the last three years (AND 15 Before that at youth level) with a very good couple of dedicated lads that help every single weekend, it is bloody hard work mate.

We started our club two years ago ,  in our first season we won the double in div 5 , promoted to div three ,finished third , got promoted to Div 1, where we are now.and in pre season hey presto ! !!!! we lose 6 players from original squad that started club? ,
Because  "its too high in league for them to play " Their words not mine  , SO what do you do ??????

The only thing you can you can do is go and get players,  who can play at that level to be competitive and reliable to  keep your club alive .

Who does that all that mate  ! and also Finding sponsors , doing paperwork, washing kits ,collecting subs ,attending AGM,MEETINGS at the expense of seeing your family on weekends , Organising absolutely bloody everything from top to bottom.

The running a club involves so much more than just getting out of bed on a Sunday morning for 9am , grabbing your  boots play for 90 and THATS IT!!!????? o and pay a fiver , cant even get into the cinema for that mind.

Give it a go trying to run a club  and then tell me we should be all banned .

Couldn't agree more with Tom, you can't just blanket ban players for a year and hope the problem goes away, because it won't. And certainly can't punish the genuine managers / players / club officials, who always carry the can anyway. I think proper studies need to be done as to why a club has folded:

1. Name the players who have you let you down on at least one occasion (i.e. said they would be there Sunday but then didn't show)

2. Have a proper system in place where ALL players pay subs. Too many 'superstar' players are let off because a club are either scared to ask them or think that if they do, they'll go and play for someone else.

3. Insist players pay their own yellow or red cards - especially for dissent or violent conduct. Clubs bail players out because if a red or yellow isn't paid within a set timeframe the fine increases drastically. But very often these players can rack up debts of £100+ (and I've seen it happen!). Ban them through the County so they can't play for anyone else full stop.

4. I think the league should certainly flag up a player a club wants to sign if he has been a 'problem' player in number 1 above, and the baggage that comes with these players should be noted.

5. If a club folds, name the players who owe the club money and how much.

6. As for keeping everyone happy - this is part and parcel of football management at all levels and never gets any easier. I always tried to plan 2 games ahead so if someone was on the bench, you could say: 'but you are starting against xxx next week'

dezza wrote:

I disagree that people are put off by people pot hunting in the lower divisions as the lower are divisions are thriving so its not having a negative affect on the lower divisions really. As much as fair weather players and pot hunters do affect the premier division I don't want this thread to descend into the same old pot hunter rant as all other threads do! There are other things that affect premier teams, one thing I have found is the lack of people willing to be substitutes on a Sunday morning who have the ability to be a prem player, they just don't want to be on the bench! This then affects rest of lads as having bare 11 is not good enough, we are lucky we have a good bunch of lads that contains some maybe not up to the standard of others but will be there week in week out and play just as equal a part as the rest to our success.

So if they dont want to sit on the bench they'll drop down to the lower divisions,  causing havoc down there, problems in the prem has knock on effects for evey other division, when those players drop down to the other teams, for the reasons being what you have stated, you only have to open your eyes to see whats happening, if they dont want to take their turn on the bench, then dont sign them up.

Managers know who these players are, but keep on signing them regardless, dont come crying when its all too late.

why do they sign them on? I know some clubs (both past and present) who would sign on a troublesome player regardless of the issues because they wan't to win at all costs!

Well carry on then and keep killing teams off.

Nothing resolved then? Still don't understand people's refusal to ban them for a season. I realise how bad it would be for the loyal lads but you should speak out when you see it happening . I no a few of the Fairfield lads and would love them to be desperate enough to play for me, but I'm sure our committee may have a voice on it. There is nothin worse than playin in the lower leagues and turn up with what 11 you could get and see the opposition full of players you no could/should/ have played in the top two divisions.

but why should the innocent players suffer?

and to be fair, there is nothing to stop good players wanting to or playing in the lower leagues.

Too many of them already are., why would you play in a lower league if you've got the talent, i just dont understand it.

On one hand the lower clubs are saying whats wrong with taking them on to better your team, so when your team goes up in the prem, its the prem players that are moving back down again,.... do they want to be in the prem or not, its like watching a lift going up and down.

The point isn't that good players can't play in the lower leagues, the point is if they have been with a club that folds they shouldn't be able to go, tough sh*t on them whose next ? I'm not sayin that even a majority of lads are like that . But if u no your club is about to fold and u fave a ban I'm sure you'd be on the phone to everyone/ anyone to bail you out through the hard times. Try to stop makin it so easy just to walk away

Completely agree with bretty here. The problem exists and whilst you'll never eradicate it entirely we need to stop making it so easy for people to do! Incidentally this problem isn't confined to the prem, I can think of a few teams off the top of my head (I'm sure we all can) that have been in leagues further down tipped pre season to walk leagues and then disappearing when that wasn't the case!

But you can't punishing innocent people, that would be wrong, thats like saying nuke the lot of them.

dezza wrote:

FC POCHIN wrote:

we have managed to give everyone game time but when you have 15/16 players of similar ability
it's difficult to plaese everyone every week.to have the same 14 players turn up every week would be heaven but it just doesn't happen

Completely off topic but have you signed baz Dovey yet?

no mate he's not playing sundays this season apparently

Hellboy wrote:

But you can't punishing innocent people, that would be wrong, thats like saying nuke the lot of them.

that sounds like the perfect answer!

phil_brown wrote:

We're the only team that have got players that don't play in the East Midlands Counties. Our highest players play and for those that know Saturday football the step from Senior to East Mids is quite big.

Its mainly the same bunch of players that play for teams in these leagues, that are ruining it for the teams in alliance league too.

Point is if we can't come up with a suggestion we all agree on, what chance do the league have??

Maybe naming and shaming is the first step. Club secretaries notify the league of the non showers and non payers, who list them on here. Has to be justified though, and not let others add names and comment to avoid malicious accusations that aren't justified.

Also, don't see how you can ban everyone from a folded club. What about the poor guy who signs on to help a team out to try and stop them folding. Pays, turns up, others leave and club folds. Not fair to ban him surely?

It happens, I signed for a mates team who were struggling and eventually folded, during the summer thankfully.

As for banning managers etc, bit harsh, though I guess you could bring that in, if say after a year if the name and shame list being in operation, if a club folds having signed on say 3 of those players you could ban them on the basis of being naive / negligent.

you'd be banning a hell of a lot of people if it came down to naivety!

Oily warned u all about throops and told u exactly what they would do but no one listened to the big man.

I don't think naming and shaming is ever a route to go down. A players circumstances are always going to be different. How could the league possible support any kind if vilification of an individual?

If you run a good club, and you want to keep it that way, there is absolutely nothing stopping you phoning the players previous club and asking why perhaps he left & then listen to the players reason and make your own judgement on the two opinions.

When I did my club, I did something similar and when asked would never say a bad word about a departing player if he reasons were just to play


If the player is transferring, you have to speak with the club anyway.

Its not the naive ones we've got to worry about, its all down to the selfish ones, winning things built on selfish priciples is shameful, they ought to hang their heads in shame.

I didn't really mean naive, just trying to be polite about it!

Understand where you're coming from Web-Manager, but most of this isn't about doing checks to protect your own club, its about protecting he other teams in the league, which you have no control over, to prevent teams folding which then ruin the remaining teams seasons.

And the administration of it would have to be careful, give players a right of reply before adding them maybe? But can't just find fault in every proposal. I'm sure there isn't a perfect answer, but something has to be done to look after the good/honest players. Cant leave things as they are.

I get your proposal I really do.

But the point is, is that on a, for all intense and purposes, a business website, where people are directly responsible for content. We could not publish anything of that nature.

You may feel it's sad, buts it's a reflection of society that websites are becoming ever more monitored and regulated. Anything which can be interpreted as "Cyber Bullying" or similar leaves individuals open to prosecution and indeed the whole system being shut down.

Remember it only takes one to spoil it for the rest.

I know people think the moderators on here are OTT, but it's all for good reason.

Looks like enderby could b the nxt victims according 2 twitter think there struggling 4 a side sunday

the goalie wrote:

Totally disagree with the above comment, Absolute rubbish !!

Why should the management of a club be banned?. why not go further than that and ban the whole  league committee as well.
Because  they approve all signings and transfers made by managers.

I have been responsible for my clubs running for the last three years (AND 15 Before that at youth level) with a very good couple of dedicated lads that help every single weekend, it is bloody hard work mate.

We started our club two years ago ,  in our first season we won the double in div 5 , promoted to div three ,finished third , got promoted to Div 1, where we are now.and in pre season hey presto ! !!!! we lose 6 players from original squad that started club? ,
Because  "its too high in league for them to play " Their words not mine  , SO what do you do ??????

The only thing you can you can do is go and get players,  who can play at that level to be competitive and reliable to  keep your club alive .

Who does that all that mate  ! and also Finding sponsors , doing paperwork, washing kits ,collecting subs ,attending AGM,MEETINGS at the expense of seeing your family on weekends , Organising absolutely bloody everything from top to bottom.

The running a club involves so much more than just getting out of bed on a Sunday morning for 9am , grabbing your  boots play for 90 and THATS IT!!!????? o and pay a fiver , cant even get into the cinema for that mind.

Give it a go trying to run a club  and then tell me we should be all banned .

Ditto to the above Tommy, I know only too well how hard things are to sort out, even when we were competing for that top spot (Harrow) against you we were struggling to get 11 towards the end so imagine if we had been near the bottom, we would have definitely folded before the season ended

CSKA17 wrote:

I didn't really mean naive, just trying to be polite about it!

To$$pot$ come to mind.

generally if someone quits a job, there is an exit interview to find out why they left so any problems can be identified. Perhaps the league could do an exit interview? Could publish results on here for further feedback. Instead of making blanket accusations against teams, understand what the issues have been?

understand the disease, beat the disease

I have been advocating this for a while and will certainly be following it up!

Polska legend II wrote:

I have been advocating this for a while and will certainly be following it up!

i would happily do an interview or questionnaire, and would happily point to my own failings as a first time club sec if it helped others avoid the same pitfalls

and for the record, my two biggest mistakes were setting up a reserves before the first team was settled, and not reporting players to the FA when they didn't pay a fine or subs
To counteract this, i would say no team to set up a reserve team in the first three years, and also for clubs to submit a copy of their books every month, any players owing a certain amount of money would be warned by the league, and if the debt isn't reduced by an agreed amount the following month they are banned and reported to FA.
If i ban a player from a club for poor payment they Will just go elsewhere.Clubs need more support

if you use the CFA to support you Widds, the players won't be able to play for anyone if they owe money!

that's if you report them straight away, and also if its for a fine, not subs i believe? I am talking about intermediate action rather than straight to the final ban?

they can also be banned for subs

Why were players not reported for not paying their subs?

We as you all know have folded, and there are a number of players who owe the club money, I have given them 14 days to pay what they owe the club, or I will contact the county FA and ask for them to be banned until said fine is paid. This is seperate to the fine they will all receive from the league for the club folding.

We have several players whom turned up week in week out. So rather than name and shame the individuals that dont pay, dont turn up. Why don't we just name the players that are commiitted, give them a public reference if you like.

For Example, one of our Players Tom Orton, came every week, paid every week, never behind with money, supported the club through thick and thin, and volunteered to do the card down the pub every week. He would be no problem to any club that wanted him. And I imagine he would be in high demand as he is a top drawer player.

I am happy to give a reference to any player if any club is interested in signing them. (Once they have paid there fines of course lol) and I will give you an honest assessment of them.

Hellboy wrote:

Why were players not reported for not paying their subs?

mainly because its not easy to report one of your mates, you try to sort it in house, but if good book keeping was required by the league, then it makes it easier to resolve the situation without a fall out.

sorry Widds but I don't agree that the league should get involved in club debts. that is clearing a club mess up! surely all players - mates or otherwise - can be told at the start of the season: if you rack up a debt of x£ then you will be reported / banned...?

johnmeode wrote:

We as you all know have folded, and there are a number of players who owe the club money, I have given them 14 days to pay what they owe the club, or I will contact the county FA and ask for them to be banned until said fine is paid. This is seperate to the fine they will all receive from the league for the club folding.

We have several players whom turned up week in week out. So rather than name and shame the individuals that dont pay, dont turn up. Why don't we just name the players that are commiitted, give them a public reference if you like.

For Example, one of our Players Tom Orton, came every week, paid every week, never behind with money, supported the club through thick and thin, and volunteered to do the card down the pub every week. He would be no problem to any club that wanted him. And I imagine he would be in high demand as he is a top drawer player.

I am happy to give a reference to any player if any club is interested in signing them. (Once they have paid there fines of course lol) and I will give you an honest assessment of them.

this is exactly why it would be hugely unfair to ban players for a year or whatever!

Problem for clubs is when your struggling to get a team out, you have 9 available, plus 2 guys who owe money, not so easy to ban them then is it?

johnmeode wrote:

We as you all know have folded, and there are a number of players who owe the club money, I have given them 14 days to pay what they owe the club, or I will contact the county FA and ask for them to be banned until said fine is paid. This is seperate to the fine they will all receive from the league for the club folding.

We have several players whom turned up week in week out. So rather than name and shame the individuals that dont pay, dont turn up. Why don't we just name the players that are commiitted, give them a public reference if you like.

For Example, one of our Players Tom Orton, came every week, paid every week, never behind with money, supported the club through thick and thin, and volunteered to do the card down the pub every week. He would be no problem to any club that wanted him. And I imagine he would be in high demand as he is a top drawer player.

I am happy to give a reference to any player if any club is interested in signing them. (Once they have paid there fines of course lol) and I will give you an honest assessment of them.

The league could publish it like a transfer list, if the players give consent to be on it