Teams resigning mid-season

Why do teams resign without completing their fixtures?
What can the League do to prevent it? (The fine imposed is the maximum allowed under Football Association regulations and this hardly seems to be a deterrent.)

Why do teams resign without completing their fixtures?
What can the League do to prevent it? (The fine imposed is the maximum allowed under Football Association regulations and this hardly seems to be a deterrent.)

not enough players to fulfill the fixtures, which is why i have said before that some teams dont play ringers to try and win, some teams play ringers to fulfill a fixture

It's also not cheap to run a team, if you can't get sponsorship then over the course of a season pitch and referee costs can build up, if you lose a few players for any reason and can't replace them then you are struggling for a team week in week out which i think incurs more fines (not having 11 players/ not fulfilling a fixture), point deductions and mounting debts can't make it very appealing to carry on, especially if your losing week after week!

Well what about teams that fold mid season,then reapply for the following season under a new name,subject to acceptance at the AGM..... Will they be offended if people object to them rejoining the League on the assumption that they could do the same thing again??

The last two teams to resign had about 30 registered players and the average number per team is 26.

Its not something that the league can do on there own. For a start, i think that the different leagues in Leicester need to get together and stop players signing on for clubs in different leagues, because the mercenaries who are after pots sign for two and then stick with the one that has a chance of trophies.
Secondly, i think if all leagues agreed to a 'First year registration fee' where the club has to raise an additional £300 which is refundable at the end of the season (if you dont complete your games the £300 is split amongst those teams who pay for their pitch and ref earlier in the season). £300 sounds a lot, but if you are setting up a team, and the players are serious about it, thats only £20 per man on a 15 man squad, you could even bump it up to £30 a man.
And my third suggestion is to have player and managers registration held on one database from all different leagues, and then when new teams form you can check the players, see what level they played at, check the players and management and see if they have a record for folding mid season

But that would take a lot of cooperation, and unfortunately there are some leagues that need teams and want to make it easier to join rather than harder...

Assistant Secretary wrote:

The last two teams to resign had about 30 registered players and the average number per team is 26.

saff lounge must have 30 + registered players but i still had a game where only 4 turned up

Yeah I see what you mean Widds, but it's expensive enough to start a new team with kits, pitches, balls, nets etc without having to then raise a further £300 - we'd more than likely lose teams without any fresh blood - therefore decreasing the overall number of teams and leagues...longer term we'd only have 2-3 leagues as no1 would have the finance.

I think some of the league fines are a little extensive, as you've mentioned if a team has lost several players and is struggling to make fixtures and playing with 8-9 men then they are consistantly penalised financially until the point where they have to fold. If the league was a little more supportive and understood that the club is having problems then the team would be more likely to re-gather itself and have the necessary means to bring fresh blood in without debt overhanging them.

sorry 2 b harsh on the loyal lads in these clubs but the only way is, all signed on players and management 2 b banned from the league 4 a minimum 12 months not nice but it will help prevent it

bretty1 wrote:

sorry 2 b harsh on the loyal lads in these clubs but the only way is, all signed on players and management 2 b banned from the league 4 a minimum 12 months not nice but it will help prevent it

Would have to be a county fa ban otherwise they just go to another league....

that's hardly fair on the players that do turn up and pay every week is it?

from memory I believe the (Saturday) district league have a rule whereby clubs deposit a sum of money at the start of each season, and the league repay it back to the club once they have fulfilled their fixtures

The problem has been, certainly for Wigston, is there is too many teams from this area, and therefore if you are struggling then there is very little availability to get some one else in on a long term basis. I think the Player/Teams Wanted section on this forum has slowed right down proving my point, that used to be very busy with interested players

The finance is the main reason I think though. There can be blame parted on both the League and the Club itself. Katie (our sec) does a fantastic job of getting ALL the lads to pay before they have kicked a ball on a sunday (before they no whether they are sub or starting- and they are refunded accordingly or monies carried over to the next game) and if they go X amount of weeks without paying they dont play simple as that. I would suggest that some teams that have dropped out, who have had to rely on newbies coming in every week to make 11 get off paying subs etc, which is key to a successful club.

It has nothing to do with the numbers signed on, its the reliability of the players. This is not something you can easily find, but imposing fines on teams for not fulfilling fixtures is just adding to the problem. How about just giving the opposition a 3-0 win if they do not fulfill a fixture. I very much doubt a team would simply drop out because they have lost 3 points, as its a sprint not a marathon as they say. NRI got 3 points taken from them early on and they have shown you still can compete for league and cup honours. This does mean the loss of the monies for the pitch, but the club would not have to pay ref (maybe expenses if its a long travel which could be determined by the league) and also there is no need to replay the fixture, which would add another pitch cost and referree cost, and help with the end of seaosn pile up. Am sure someone will find a hole in my theory?

never have liked the idea of 'awarding someone a 3-0 win' (or other such scoreline). This does not happen in any other form of football anywhere in the world and is just something very unlikely to ever happen. other good points though!

I think as much as the leagues and county fa could work together more, clubs need to take responsibility, as Paulo says, get money before, also bring players in that will continue the spirit you have at the club, not always about getting the best available players, you need to make sure people enjoy turning up and also dont want to let their friends down by not turning up to matches.
Winning trophies is a big boost, but at the end of the day, the enjoyment of a good game of footie and a couple of pints (plus monster end of season sessions!) is as much a motivator as anything else...so basically, dont sign tossers lol

Polska legend II wrote:

never have liked the idea of 'awarding someone a 3-0 win' (or other such scoreline). This does not happen in any other form of football anywhere in the world and is just something very unlikely to ever happen. other good points though!

I belive UEFA awarded Italy a 3-0 victory over Serbia in the current qualifers for Serbia causing the abandonment. Im in favour of awarding the opposition a victory for a no show, in the days where extra fixtures are tough to squeeze in i think a 3-0 defeat along with the current punishments would be better.

Widds wrote:

For a start, i think that the different leagues in Leicester need to get together and stop players signing on for clubs in different leagues, because the mercenaries who are after pots sign for two and then stick with the one that has a chance of trophies.
..

As a League, we have always been in favour of this. Many years (decades) ago, reps from the 4 leagues agreed a scheme, but one of the Leagues pulled out and that was the end of that. There would be some merit in the Alliance and LSL working together, but it needs both Leagues to have an efficient registration system which we have had for a long time (thanks to morley and his wife). Maybe, LSL now have a workable system and talks should resume. The key would be exchange of computer files on a regular basis - even daily at the start of the season.

There has long been talk of a County wide data base run by Holmes Park and I think it will happen one day. The downside might be registrations being taken out of league control and a subsequent loss of revenue. It could also mean players npt being able to sign on the day of the game.

Your views are appreciated, as always

To comment I think we'd really need to understand what happens currently during the new team interviews???

It's all about money.

Leagues put their annual fees up and put the refs fees up for no apparent reason other than 'just because we can', the pich owners put their annual fees up on the same basis, county FA put their fees up for whatever reason and it all adds up over the years. I'll bet that if you added it all up and compared it to 5 or 7 years ago the cost of running a club has just about doubled...all because of greed, greed, greed...for no reason other than 'gimme your f**cking money.

It's one big chain reaction from whoever at the top right the way down to the player.

I'll also bet that the older players on here only paid about a fiver to join a club and then 2.50/3.00 a week subs and I''m sure it's double that now.?

Anyway, at the end of the day, the cost of playing/running a club has risen way above the cost of living and with normal everyday stuff going up in price the regular guy has probably had enough of paying out his dwindeling spare cash...

Finally a post from Whistle blower that makes sense and to one which I agree, see, you can talk sense when you put your mind to it.

Whistle Blower wrote:

It's all about money.

Leagues put their annual fees up and put the refs fees up for no apparent reason other than 'just because we can', the pich owners put their annual fees up on the same basis, county FA put their fees up for whatever reason and it all adds up over the years. I'll bet that if you added it all up and compared it to 5 or 7 years ago the cost of running a club has just about doubled...all because of greed, greed, greed...for no reason other than 'gimme your f**cking money.

It's one big chain reaction from whoever at the top right the way down to the player.

I'll also bet that the older players on here only paid about a fiver to join a club and then 2.50/3.00 a week subs and I''m sure it's double that now.?

Anyway, at the end of the day, the cost of playing/running a club has risen way above the cost of living and with normal everyday stuff going up in price the regular guy has probably had enough of paying out his dwindling spare cash...

I agree.

County has increased the refs fee for next season. FA has doubled the Public Liability Insurance from £5m to £10m which is reflected in another big increase in County Affiliation fees. County tried to increase pitch hire at Holmes Park by 20%, but the Directors reversed the decision. Admission to some County finals increased from £3 to £5. All of this against a background of more than 20% of 16 to 24 year olds being unemployed!

There are no plans, to my knowledge to increase Alliance League subs and fines, etc , but we do now give away 7 free kits and watch out for an announcement on top quality match balls.

Whistle blower is right we were talking a while back comparing and average subs are 3/4 quid signing on between 20 and 30!
Added even to how much it is to get a kit washed!
the councils ate grabbing too years ago you had a pitch and every other week the pitch didn't have a game now it's nearly 2 teams per pitch everywhere which during the winter shags the grass leading to more postponements!
Losing batttle for clubs!

1 thing the league could do is stop teams putting 7 days in for players, weakening 1 team to strengthen another, once you sign for a team you should stick to that team for the season, obviously if players are desperate to leave they will only be able to sign for another club in another league

Jim royle wrote:

Whistle blower is right we were talking a while back comparing and average subs are 3/4 quid signing on between 20 and 30!
Added even to how much it is to get a kit washed!
the councils ate grabbing too years ago you had a pitch and every other week the pitch didn't have a game now it's nearly 2 teams per pitch everywhere which during the winter shags the grass leading to more postponements!
Losing batttle for clubs!

saff lounge are £3 subs now and £5 signing on fee, whoever washes the kit gets a tenner to, definitely going up next year though

also saff lounge had a spell at the start of the season where we had to play about 6 games at home in a row, this should never happen, especially to new teams

saff lounge wrote:

Jim royle wrote:

Whistle blower is right we were talking a while back comparing and average subs are 3/4 quid signing on between 20 and 30!
Added even to how much it is to get a kit washed!
the councils ate grabbing too years ago you had a pitch and every other week the pitch didn't have a game now it's nearly 2 teams per pitch everywhere which during the winter shags the grass leading to more postponements!
Losing batttle for clubs!

saff lounge are £3 subs now and £5 signing on fee, whoever washes the kit gets a tenner to, definitely going up next year though

also saff lounge had a spell at the start of the season where we had to play about 6 games at home in a row, this should never happen, especially to new teams

Yeah we had the same thing earlier this season home games in all 3 cups, and a bunch of home league fixtures wasn't great, left us looking at throwing in the towel.

saff lounge wrote:

1 thing the league could do is stop teams putting 7 days in for players, weakening 1 team to strengthen another, once you sign for a team you should stick to that team for the season, obviously if players are desperate to leave they will only be able to sign for another club in another league

Part of FA Regulations which is beyond the League's control.

Assistant Secretary wrote:

saff lounge wrote:

1 thing the league could do is stop teams putting 7 days in for players, weakening 1 team to strengthen another, once you sign for a team you should stick to that team for the season, obviously if players are desperate to leave they will only be able to sign for another club in another league

Part of FA Regulations which is beyond the League's control.

THE FIXTURES ARE NOT THIS IS HARSH NOT ALLOWING NEW CLUBS TO GET ANY MONEY BEHIND THEM IS HARD AND IF THEY HAVE NO SPONSOR WOULD NOT SURVIVE DOING THIS THIS MUST HAVE BEEN OVERLOOKED

There are grants out there- we've had some. Other teams are always interested in how we've managed to secure them but there's noone in a lot of teams who wants to put time towards applying for them

In our first year I made our lads run round Wigston and get sponsored for it- brought in £350 which ALL went into the club. (I only asked the lads to raise £100!!) That's the reason we made it through our first season!

Signing on fees have come down each year and match subs have gone up 50p since the start of the season, despite other fees with affiliations, refs and pitches going up. I wash our kit most weeks but if the lads do ever help out, they get free subs that week (which by the way is only £3 at our club).

Teams are teams on and off the field- maybe some people forget that?

Good deflection by the assistant sec there - it's not all County FA y'know who are banging the fees up and fines...

You have a team or two that are struggling, one week they turn up with the bear eleven and lose heavily making next weeks task harder. The following week they have eight players and 'one on the way', the ninth turns up and they all manage to get a fixture done, but they wil be fined...KO late, not starting with eleven, no lino...FINE, FINE, FINE...

the team gets fined in the week and the same happens a week later, ten men - get the fixture played but fined...not starting with eleven, no lino...FINE, FINE, FINE...

...and this familiar story goes on with the usual finish of the club sec not being able to get eleven every week, fine after fine by the league and so calls it a day - even though he has tried to fulfill his teams fixtures and not cause backlog...

There comes a time when the relentless letters/emails from the league takes it toll on a club sec who tries his/hers hardest only to be whacked with fines - they're eventually going to say...'why bother' and fold.

A bit of understanding would also go a long way and mot likely stop teams folding?

...and by the way, giving away 7 new kits only helps 7 teams - 7 successful teams - not those who struggle every week so I don't think that's much of a carrot...

not every team get fined for late starts / no linesmen / 10 players etc. / in fact it is always a minority - same as the sending in a press report. so why should a few that don't stick to the rules when everyone else does get away with it?

and beofre you say it, it's not always struggling teams that can't get 11 - Scraptoft Garage struggled the other month

Polska legend II wrote:

and beofre you say it, it's not always struggling teams that can't get 11 - Scraptoft Garage struggled the other month

did they not call off 2 games because they only managed 9-10 players??!? When they could have fulfilled the fixture?!?

I think the obvious answer is the amount of money it costs to run a club efficiently! Personally, the worst and most annoying cost is that of the pitch hire. We play our home games at Horsewell Lane, the pitch is ok (at best) but the rest of the facilities are laughable. Horrible changing rooms, toilets and showers coupled with no help with regards to goalposts etc and they have the cheek to charge £43 per game! Where exactly does all that money go?!

Add to this the fees at the start of the season (affliliation to the FA...which again I question where it all goes, especially when you are asked to provide match balls for a County Cup Final!), fines, and ref fees and it all adds up to a hell of a lot of money.

At Moshdock, the players buy their own kits at the start of the season, therefore saving the club money. It is then £20 signing on fee and £3 subs for starting 11 and £2 for subs. However, if it weren't for the help of our sponsors and the fundraising (quiz evenings, meals etc) we do as a club, there is no way we would be able to continue.

Therefore, it all comes down to finances, now what the commitee can do about this I am not sure, but I'm guessing that is why we are in your capable hands!

Polska legend II wrote:

not every team get fined for late starts / no linesmen / 10 players etc. / in fact it is always a minority - same as the sending in a press report. so why should a few that don't stick to the rules when everyone else does get away with it?

Good contradiction.

I'm not talking about press reports, that's undefendable. Are you suggesting that the team get reported and not get fined?...I don't think so, it's more of a sensible ref not dishing out the fines by not telling the league - there are quite a few good ones about who realise that a team looks to be struggling and wouldn't want to add to their woes.

no just suggesting that if most clubs can fulfill the criteria, it should be one rule for all

Whistle Blower wrote:

Polska legend II wrote:

not every team get fined for late starts / no linesmen / 10 players etc. / in fact it is always a minority - same as the sending in a press report. so why should a few that don't stick to the rules when everyone else does get away with it?

Good contradiction.

I'm not talking about press reports, that's undefendable. Are you suggesting that the team get reported and not get fined?...I don't think so, it's more of a sensible ref not dishing out the fines by not telling the league - there are quite a few good ones about who realise that a team looks to be struggling and wouldn't want to add to their woes.

Easy tiger, you talking sense again is really strange...........