Premier Division Problems !!

So with Fairfield stating on twitter that they are folding and enderby struggling for players of the worst was to happen and these 2 teams fold where does that leave this seasons prem?? We'd be down to 7 teams, not a very competitive number. I think this a problem in every league in the county when you look at other leagues premier divisions aswell, short on numbers and teams folding left right and centre. How do leagues combat this?? Personally I think we new to combine our prem and div 1 now and take decisive action to give us a 1 team prem, that would be competitive for all those playing in it!!!

By the way I must add I do not blame the league one bit for this as its not their fault teams are unwilling to compete

true. it has been a problem this summer - a vaccuum at the top with no one wanting to play in the top 2 divisions. whilst I wouldn't advocate merging 2 divisions, I would nevertheless (next season!) have a major revamp with many teams pushed up and do away with division 7. don't think Enderby not putting a side out necessarily means they are in trouble (as we have all been there) and I'm sure they will all be at 6-a-side tomorrow night. With fairfield, whilst I always had great respect for them, I did privately say to someone last Christmas that will have gone by 2014.

Enderby have also said they are struggling however are working to resolve it! That's why I said should the worse happen.
I think you are right mark and div 7 probably needs to go.

when league told us we in one I welcomed it as a achievement and not something to fear.

lets have a go and see what happens I say no ceiling in football

Not enough teams with the same attitude though !!!! so many decline the opportunity to play in the prem or disappear when they go to prem

dezza wrote:

Not enough teams with the same attitude though !!!! so many decline the opportunity to play in the prem or disappear when they go to prem

Sad but true, When going gets tough .........................

It's not easy.

We had a good start in the Premier League last season, beating Glenfield and GT and narrowly losing 5-4 to Star & Garter. But after an injury to one of our best players and our goalkeeper leaving for university, we went on to lose 12 on the bounce.

No-one wants to turn up and more importantly, pay subs, when you are not getting results. It was a miserable season for everyone involved and it would have been much easier to fold. But we decided this season that to preserve the long-term security of the club, it was best to play at our lowest ebb in the third tier this season.

Hopefully the conundrum of the Premier League isn't going to suffer the same fate as season's gone by.

It's the same problem in the Charnwood League (7 Teams in Prem) and I assume looking at the Leicester Sunday league (6 Teams) that there is a big issue with Premier Divisions all 3 leagues

We at Sileby Athletic face the same problem as Frolesworth did last season, we've been hit 3-0 by Quorn Royals and 6-0 by Wymeswold. We haven't played badly but I think the experience and quality comes through in the end, We're the only team that have got players that don't play in the East Midlands Counties. Our highest players play Senior league and for those that know Saturday football the step from Senior to East Mids is quite big.

I have that little worry in the back of my mind that if we keep getting beat then more people are going to finish up Sundays. The effect is rubbing off onto players in the early 20's, they are starting to give Sunday football the middle finger aswell. We as a team have just got to keep positive.

Could it be time for all 3 leagues to form one main Premier Division, could it work?? and then the leagues be feeder to the Premier Division. Granted, Travel issues are a problem but you can always move kick off to say.. 11am or a bit later (obviously need pitches for junior teams) for teams to get over. Could be an idea for all 3 committee's to join forces and have a chat about it as they all have the same problem.

We face Birstall Stamford on Sunday and if you look at who scored for them yesterday it's going to be another tough game for us.

Be interested to hear all your thoughts.

Interesting idea. To keep travelling down you could get the Hinckley Sunday League involved as well and create a "Premier Division North" and "Premier Division South", and then the four leagues feeding into it.

Good idea in principle, however I'm sure it would end up with the same problems. The 12 teams that are used to finishing in the top 3 of their Prems can't all be successful in a merged Prem, and players would drop out of those teams towards the bottom.

Sad but true. Understandable everyone wants to be a winner, but very few are prepared to struggle at the lower end of a division. In my opinion that's not helped by the lack of respect for lesser teams/players, very easily branded as 'poor' by others, they forget that if they weren't there, these 'good' teams wouldn't have teams to beat.

allroads1 wrote:

Interesting idea. To keep travelling down you could get the Hinckley Sunday League involved as well and create a "Premier Division North" and "Premier Division South", and then the four leagues feeding into it.

I can assure you this has been looked into but certain leagues won't even consider it to keep there own identity even though, as we all know, it would be in everyone's interests to do it.

Maybe it should be a county initiative?

Joining leagues up? you need to do the housekeeping at home first, until we get rid of the morons out of the game, you may as well sit there all day long banging your heads against a brick wall, if you sign these players on that let you down after the novelty wears off, and you all know who they are, because they change teams more often than their pants, then solving this problem is never going to happen, perhaps people ought to look at a players record before signing them on, and if they've shifted clubs too many times, then alarms bells should be ringing, no matter how good the player seems, whats the point of signing a talented player who doesn't show, who moves on with his mates and doesn't give a $hit about your team.

Sign on a rock solid player, who might not be so talented who won't let you down, teams with players like that go on for years.

Teams that have been going for donkeys years, sign on these flash in the pan players, and within a few months have to fold, you do the maths.

bring back national service  

S&G Sec wrote:

allroads1 wrote:

Interesting idea. To keep travelling down you could get the Hinckley Sunday League involved as well and create a "Premier Division North" and "Premier Division South", and then the four leagues feeding into it.

I can assure you this has been looked into but certain leagues won't even consider it to keep there own identity even though, as we all know, it would be in everyone's interests to do it.

Maybe it should be a county initiative?

Kev is right, not all leagues will entertain the idea. Agree it should certainly be on the table though.

I may well have voiced an opinion on this last year but for what it's worth il air the idea again:
Many people have stated that the problem is some players just "jumping ship" for a more successful time and I entirely agree! The problem comes that these people are not going to change their ways unless something is done to stop them! Also it can be all too tempting for another team to sign on a player you know to be of absolute quality, especially if he has mates in the team that vouch for them being their every week.
Simply the league needs to make it harder for players to do this. I know it's annoying but it is genuinely the only way!
1)To start with I can see no reason a player should be allowed to transfer more than once in a season, yet it can and does happen - so only allow one transfer per player per year.
2)Seriously consider the number of new teams entering year on year - there are only a set number of players coming into Sunday league football year on year (unfortunately a lesser number as ppl prefer to play football on a computer) and the math does not stack up with the number of new teams. I'm aware it's not Always the new team that folds but guess what... They had to get the players from somewhere! IF this means some teams join other leagues then so be it - let those teams be another leagues problem!
3) Finally and by far the most controversial. Allow teams the right to request the denial of a transfer. The managers know straight away whether transfers could spark the end of the club. I'm lucky personally that we've had 1 player leave for another team in 4 years but I can see easily how it can and does happen where a "star" leaves you in the $hit to bang 50 goals in a division he's too good for. If its a genuine transfer no-one is going to stand in their way. Our two latest signings have come from div 6 and 7 respectively and after speaking with both clubs they were in complete understanding of a player wanting to try themselves at a higher level, likewise the one player that left spoke with me and I even went as far as to set him up with another club.

I know this all sounds very OTT but every year we moan about good players leaving to low divisions, it's not fair on the teams they leave, other teams in that division when the teams they leave duly fold OR the teams they play against in lower divisions that suddenly find themselves getting hammered by players that just shouldn't be there!

I would favour a folded club listing those players who failed to show week on week or who owe subs! Then no one should go near them.

The trouble is, we all know there would still be some clubs knocking at their door in the pursuit of winning at all costs!

Ban the players for a year from the alliance league. Job done

Yeah I agree with Bretty on this - Ban the players for a year, this will at least keep players loyal until the end of the year, at that point the club can make a decision based on the players that re sign for the new season.

Ban from the league isn't enough a there is 3 other leagues where they could ply their trade!! I say ban from all football including Saturdays haha

First of all, i have to say GREAT thread! Although it pains me to say it! I completely agree wiv Hellboy! He is talking total sense! And for those who say ban players for a year! You cant do that just for a player jumping ship! Ive been involved with a team that had to wrap when joining the prem because of these type of players! It aint an easy thing to see a team which you have put alot of personal effort in to wrap up because of the dicks that show up when they can be arsed. I think just name and shame these players.....and if another team are still stupid enough to take them on then they only deserve what they get at the end of the day

In my opinion, the problem isn't just with the players. The people that run the club are responsible for them folding as well, after all these are the people that ultimately decide who runs and plays for their club. Until EVERYBODY is held accountable for clubs folding then I fear nothing will change. I agree with Bretty1 about banning players but would take it further and would ban everybody involved with the club (Manager, Secretary, Players etc) from the alliance league for the rest of the season (Publishing this list on the web as well, enables clubs to check for serial offenders before signing although most are well known). Whilst I appreciate that some innocent people would be punished as well, maybe it would make clubs think twice before allowing these players, managers etc to join their club.
As a player would you be willing to play with these players, or for a club that may fold and see you banned from the Alliance?. I certainly wouldn't! The same as a manager, would you sign these players knowing that they may get you and everyone at your club banned?
I appreciate that these people can still play elsewhere in other leagues but let's put our own house in order first, then hopefully the other leagues will sit up and take notice. If not, then at least they are being weeded out from the Alliance League.
Don't put your clubs future at risk for short term success, good foundations will see success eventually

Totally disagree with the above comment, Absolute rubbish !!

Why should the management of a club be banned?. why not go further than that and ban the whole league committee as well.
Because  they approve all signings and transfers made by managers.

I have been responsible for my clubs running for the last three years (AND 15 Before that at youth level) with a very good couple of dedicated lads that help every single weekend, it is bloody hard work mate.

We started our club two years ago , in our first season we won the double in div 5 , promoted to div three ,finished third , got promoted to Div 1, where we are now.and in pre season hey presto ! !!!! we lose 6 players from original squad that started club? ,
Because  "its too high in league for them to play " Their words not mine  , SO what do you do ??????

The only thing you can you can do is go and get players, who can play at that level to be competitive and reliable to keep your club alive .

Who does that all that mate ! and also Finding sponsors , doing paperwork, washing kits ,collecting subs ,attending AGM,MEETINGS at the expense of seeing your family on weekends , Organising absolutely bloody everything from top to bottom.

The running a club involves so much more than just getting out of bed on a Sunday morning for 9am , grabbing your  boots play for 90 and THATS IT!!!????? o and pay a fiver , cant even get into the cinema for that mind.

Give it a go trying to run a club  and then tell me we should be all banned .

well said tom and it's even a problem getting the fiver

We only charge 3 quid and its hard getting that haha

dezza wrote:

We only charge 3 quid and its hard getting that haha

shh Dezza or my players will be wanting to sign for you lol

FC POCHIN wrote:

well said tom and it's even a problem getting the fiver

Dont be a weak manager then, get the money in advance, problem solved.

Yes name and shame them on here, if the managers know who these chickens are in advance, maybe they could avoid signing them on, if you are that desperate you have to sign on pothunters who dont pay up, then you are the ones to blame, and lets face it by now you should all know who the pothunters are.

the goalie wrote:

Totally disagree with the above comment, Absolute rubbish !!

Why should the management of a club be banned?. why not go further than that and ban the whole  league committee as well.
Because  they approve all signings and transfers made by managers.

I have been responsible for my clubs running for the last three years (AND 15 Before that at youth level) with a very good couple of dedicated lads that help every single weekend, it is bloody hard work mate.

We started our club two years ago ,  in our first season we won the double in div 5 , promoted to div three ,finished third , got promoted to Div 1, where we are now.and in pre season hey presto ! !!!! we lose 6 players from original squad that started club? ,
Because  "its too high in league for them to play " Their words not mine  , SO what do you do ??????

The only thing you can you can do is go and get players,  who can play at that level to be competitive and reliable to  keep your club alive .

Who does that all that mate  ! and also Finding sponsors , doing paperwork, washing kits ,collecting subs ,attending AGM,MEETINGS at the expense of seeing your family on weekends , Organising absolutely bloody everything from top to bottom.

The running a club involves so much more than just getting out of bed on a Sunday morning for 9am , grabbing your  boots play for 90 and THATS IT!!!????? o and pay a fiver , cant even get into the cinema for that mind.

Give it a go trying to run a club  and then tell me we should be all banned .

Some of the managers are only in it for the silverware too?

Yes its nice to win a pot, but "Not" at the cost of folding teams though.

Whilst its fair to say that sometimes management can make what turns out in hindsight to be a mistake by signing "fair weather players" who are only there when th going is good, it's also the management that are there til the end trying to find a way to keep the team going.
Just look at the case of Fairfield where the management have spoken out and apologised for letting the leagu down.... They didn't disappear it was down to lack of players and 9 times out of 10 that's the reason for teams going under.
We're already seeing a lack of "the right people" taking on teams even at youth levels, I'd be against anything that makes it more unlikely that people will take On the role of running a club!
... If the number of players playing Sunday league is diminishing (which i certainly believe us the case) then people coming in willing (and capable) to run clubs is getting to the point where theyre almost extinct!

Depends on whether people are telling the whole truth or not, anyone can cover their tracks, i dont believe theres less players willing to play sunday football, they're probably just put off by the pothunters playing in the lower divisions, where they know thats where they'll be starting if they join, who wants to come up against premier players in those lower divisions, frankly its a total embarrassment.

I disagree that people are put off by people pot hunting in the lower divisions as the lower are divisions are thriving so its not having a negative affect on the lower divisions really. As much as fair weather players and pot hunters do affect the premier division I don't want this thread to descend into the same old pot hunter rant as all other threads do! There are other things that affect premier teams, one thing I have found is the lack of people willing to be substitutes on a Sunday morning who have the ability to be a prem player, they just don't want to be on the bench! This then affects rest of lads as having bare 11 is not good enough, we are lucky we have a good bunch of lads that contains some maybe not up to the standard of others but will be there week in week out and play just as equal a part as the rest to our success.

Hellboy wrote:

FC POCHIN wrote:

well said tom and it's even a problem getting the fiver

Dont be a weak manager then, get the money in advance, problem solved.

Yes name and shame them on here, if the managers know who these chickens are in advance, maybe they could avoid signing them on, if you are that desperate you have to sign on pothunters who dont pay up, then you are the ones to blame, and lets face it by now you should all know who the pothunters are.

we don't sign pothunters,pothunters won't pay a signing on fee or subs
we have recently imposed a limit of £10 owing per player, if they get to that they won't be considered
for the starting 11 until they pay,it's the only fair way for players that pay every week

the goalie wrote:

dezza wrote:

We only charge 3 quid and its hard getting that haha

shh Dezza or my players will be wanting to sign for you lol

My lads moan about the 3 quid!! And they get wine gums and Jaffa cakes for before the game and at half time haha

i completely agree with Dezza's comment at the top, players are generally only playing Sundays for the enjoyment, in most cases those who take it more seriously play Saturdays too so who enjoys spending 85 minutes in the freezing cold rain to get a few minutes on the pitch at the end if they are lucky.... lets be honest no one does, so it's fight for your place or move somewhere that you can get a game, likely lower down the leagues a bit.

dezza wrote:

I disagree that people are put off by people pot hunting in the lower divisions as the lower are divisions are thriving so its not having a negative affect on the lower divisions really. As much as fair weather players and pot hunters do affect the premier division I don't want this thread to descend into the same old pot hunter rant as all other threads do! There are other things that affect premier teams, one thing I have found is the lack of people willing to be substitutes on a Sunday morning who have the ability to be a prem player, they just don't want to be on the bench! This then affects rest of lads as having bare 11 is not good enough, we are lucky we have a good bunch of lads that contains some maybe not up to the standard of others but will be there week in week out and play just as equal a part as the rest to our success.

it's not just prem teams dezza that's my biggest problem on sundays as well nobody wants to be on the bench and if they don't get on they want to leave

although it probably exisits throughout the divisions as you get higher it is probably harder to manage, lower down you can rotate against weaker sides to give your squad players a run, when you get to Prem/ Div 1 there aren't really any weaker sides to allow this, i'd say give them a title... assistant Manager works well for 1 lol

There were a few times last season where we were able to rotate our squad but so far this season we've had no chance! We've had lads not even get on in the 1st 2 games through no fault of their own, last season we used the Arthur Moore to give others games and may do so again this season although without the group format we may not have that opportunity

I agree to an extent with helly that it can be off putting for players to join into a league that SHOULD be their level and finding themselves getting hammered by players way too good for that level.
HOWEVER the diminishing number of players making the jump from youth football to senior football is undeniable. In reality it is these players making that step each season that SHOULD be the primary influx of players, if this isn't happening where are all the players for new teams coming from... Existing teams!
In terms of the "bench argument" this is one I would put on the shoulders of management. You can't expect to have a squad of 22 top top class players. We've always kept a relatively small squad and this conversation has made me check our stats and 3 games in and every signed on player has been on the pitch this season. Also I think a bit of honesty from managers helps here as to what is expected.
P.s fish and chips you after an asst manager role?!

no lol, but it seems to keep Mr Perry turning up each week although only just last week!

Agree with that,we've been very honest with the lads that have started on the bench and with everyone that has signed for us.