time for a change

yes it,s that old chesnut again (no pun intended) have we got too many fixtures in a season now?
the alliance league membership ia at an all time high,so there are more fixures than ever before,so any problems
with the weather causes serious backlog
last season went into may when many pitches become unavailable and a lot of time and effort was put in by the commitee to manage to get those games played(james must have been pulling his hair out)
you may say that was a one off but this season has had lots of postponements and we haven't even had the snow yet!
there is still a round 1 game of the billy walton to be played yet and the arthur moore,fosters and stokes cup all all behind,not to mention the county cup.
the trend is for wetter summers and winters in this country,we even had friendlies cancelled in june,july and august this year!
taking all of this into consideration is it time for the billy walton cup to be scrapped(shock horror) yes i know there are plenty of teams who wouldn,t want this,and that "it's a chance to test yourselves against the big boys" is the main objection that comes up when the subject is mentioned,but is it a case of the heart ruling the head because 99.9%
of the time the lower division teams still lose,and with so many cup competitions to play teams who are financialy struggling could be in real danger of folding(something we don't want to see happen to any team) if they get a run of homes draws and get through a couple of rounds with home league fixtures in between
so i think the solution could be to merge the bily walton and arthur moore cups(the bw & am cup perhaps?)
and make it a cup for the prem and div 1 teams(possibly teams playing each other home and away)
the fosters for divs 2 3 4 straight knockout,and the stokes for divs 5 6 and 7 straight knockout,then every team has some sort of chance of a cup run.
as for the divisions i would have 10 teams in the prem and div 1 and 12 in divs 2-7
i know i wiull get shot down in flames for some of these ideas,but surely there are some things we can do to avoid fixture congestion at the end of the season which can punish teams through no fault of their own,when they could be in with a chance of a trophy or are trying to avoid relegation and then find themselves with an impossible task of playing
3 games a week for a couple of weeks and blowing it

yust my thoughts

but on the other hand, most teams have 10 games left and if no more get cancelled, the season will be done before march?? for me the leagues are getting smaller and if teams fold then its even less. think we need to abandon div 7, put an extra team in each div and make the div size back to what it used to be. i remember when there used to be a minimum of 13 teams per division and the season still ended by may. i know u can't help the weather though.

i think teams have a responsibility to get more midweek games early in the season, also, whilst the successful teams may have lots of games, those who get knocked out early in the season may not have games to last thru the season?

Think the format is right and people should be careful what they wish for. James decided to keep 12 teams per division a few years back and that is an ideal number to avoid mass fixture pile ups. We've just saved 2 weeks of fixtures with saff lounge and aylestone folding! Keep the billy walton and start the season earlier would be my preference. And to be fair 2012 has seen the wettest weather ever hopefully never to be repeated.

Widds wrote:

i think teams have a responsibility to get more midweek games early in the season, also, whilst the successful teams may have lots of games, those who get knocked out early in the season may not have games to last thru the season?

think midweek games are stupid, anyone working normal hours struggles to get to a pitch and ready for 6pm, teams end up feilding weak squads, lose points which are vital come end of the season. its sunday football - lets keep it on sunday?

fair enough, everyone has there opinion, but i work normal hours and make it. Love a Friday kick off, the build up through the day and then the pub after. I agree it is a struggle tho

Why not start our own league cups say mid jan time with an option of pulling out if your team feels there is already enough fixtures,plus if teams are struggling the odd free week may give them recruitment time

Widds wrote:

fair enough, everyone has there opinion, but i work normal hours and make it. Love a Friday kick off, the build up through the day and then the pub after. I agree it is a struggle tho

"normal" hours are 5 or 5:30 finish, which leaves you about 30mins to get from one end of the county to the other, in rush hour, get changed and warmed up and ready - not gonna happen!

i finish at 5, i know what normal hours are lol.
different for you coz you live in the wilderness. isn't it 6.30 anyway?

evening games ive played have always been 6 i think, i suppose if you live/work in leics and your games there its fine. if your games were in harborough though and you finished at 5:30 im sure you'd share my opinion

absolutely, sounds like you need to move lol. guess i like it coz our players can all get there, so we get to play at full strength and with no hangover!

us at oakfield have 8 fixtures left for the whole season now so could be finished by the end of feb so I dont think we have too many fixtures at all

So if oak field were invited into a cup comp you'd be we'll up for it?

I personally would, would have to speak to the manager about it though

Jenko wrote:

us at oakfield have 8 fixtures left for the whole season now so could be finished by the end of feb so I dont think we have too many fixtures at all

In comparison to you though, we have a minimum of 17 games. We have 15 left in the league and are still in the Billy Walton and County Cups. At this rate we will be playing well into April and will without a doubt have midweek games and this is all providing we don't have any more games called off. I don't think the weather has helped this year and I think that throughout the season we play a fair number of games but perhaps the season starting a couple of weeks earlier or perhaps being extended until the first week of May would help? Not sure the councils will like it because of that 'sport' cricket.

whiteeagles wrote:

Jenko wrote:

us at oakfield have 8 fixtures left for the whole season now so could be finished by the end of feb so I dont think we have too many fixtures at all

In comparison to you though, we have a minimum of 17 games. We have 15 left in the league and are still in the Billy Walton and County Cups. At this rate we will be playing well into April and will without a doubt have midweek games and this is all providing we don't have any more games called off. I don't think the weather has helped this year and I think that throughout the season we play a fair number of games but perhaps the season starting a couple of weeks earlier or perhaps being extended until the first week of May would help? Not sure the councils will like it because of that 'sport' cricket.

wouldn't worry about the county cup and billy walton much beyond this round

Widds wrote:

i think teams have a responsibility to get more midweek games early in the season, also, whilst the successful teams may have lots of games, those who get knocked out early in the season may not have games to last thru the season?

but widds i don't think many teams like midweek games at the start or end of the season(perhaps we should have one of your polls on this)
and it's not fair for some teams to play midweek and others not,as shown by the uproar at the start of this season.

hotshot66 wrote:

Widds wrote:

i think teams have a responsibility to get more midweek games early in the season, also, whilst the successful teams may have lots of games, those who get knocked out early in the season may not have games to last thru the season?

think midweek games are stupid, anyone working normal hours struggles to get to a pitch and ready for 6pm, teams end up feilding weak squads, lose points which are vital come end of the season. its sunday football - lets keep it on sunday?

agree totally with this and we probably wouldn't need midweek games if we didn't have so many cup games

Jenko wrote:

us at oakfield have 8 fixtures left for the whole season now so could be finished by the end of feb so I dont think we have too many fixtures at all

but my point is you should have 12 teams in your division
as it stands you have played 10 league games in the first 4 months of the season and you would still have 12 to play in the last 4 months
which is about right to take you to the end of april
also your side has a great chance of winning the division,i know i'd prefer my team to win the league and finish a few weeks earlier than have to play too many games at the end of april and end up blowing it
and i wouldn't worry to much about finishing at the end of feb,there will be more weather postponements and with other teams in your division
having played less games you won't get a fixture every week while they catch up

whiteeagles wrote:

Jenko wrote:

us at oakfield have 8 fixtures left for the whole season now so could be finished by the end of feb so I dont think we have too many fixtures at all

In comparison to you though, we have a minimum of 17 games. We have 15 left in the league and are still in the Billy Walton and County Cups. At this rate we will be playing well into April and will without a doubt have midweek games and this is all providing we don't have any more games called off. I don't think the weather has helped this year and I think that throughout the season we play a fair number of games but perhaps the season starting a couple of weeks earlier or perhaps being extended until the first week of May would help? Not sure the councils will like it because of that 'sport' cricket.

exactly my point i had you down as one of the teams in the hunt to win div 6,but the amount of games you have left could cost you that chance

norty14 wrote:

but on the other hand, most teams have 10 games left and if no more get cancelled, the season will be done before march?? for me the leagues are getting smaller and if teams fold then its even less. think we need to abandon div 7, put an extra team in each div and make the div size back to what it used to be. i remember when there used to be a minimum of 13 teams per division and the season still ended by may. i know u can't help the weather though.

plastic pitches are the answer

Very true!

FC POCHIN wrote:

Widds wrote:

i think teams have a responsibility to get more midweek games early in the season, also, whilst the successful teams may have lots of games, those who get knocked out early in the season may not have games to last thru the season?

but widds i don't think many teams like midweek games at the start or end of the season(perhaps we should have one of your polls on this)
and it's not fair for some teams to play midweek and others not,as shown by the uproar at the start of this season.

Fair enough mate, not saying i am right, its just my opinion, get games played early and ahead of the game, and i enjoy the midweek games...i may be the only person in the county to think that, but i do!

Another thing though, if we jacked in a cup competition, you know we will have a mild winter and the league will be over for some clubs in January, and if a team has nothing to play for then you get more teams folding? Also, i know another Sunday League in Leicester that had a team finish their games before Christmas in the league...i dont want to spend that many Sunday mornings with the missus!!

Polska legend II wrote:

Think the format is right and people should be careful what they wish for. James decided to keep 12 teams per division a few years back and that is an ideal number to avoid mass fixture pile ups. We've just saved 2 weeks of fixtures with saff lounge and aylestone folding! Keep the billy walton and start the season earlier would be my preference. And to be fair 2012 has seen the wettest weather ever hopefully never to be repeated.

I agree, got to keep all the cups, and the league numbers are about right with 12. As you said, we've lost 2 teams in Div 2, so actually starting with 13 in the league would have been great in this case, but that's with hindsight obviously. On the reverse, if we'd started with less than 12 teams, we'd now be down to a division containing single figures, which is far from ideal.

I'd like to add that I think teams have a responsibility to get games on as well, rather than just accepting a postponement and then having a morning off, then moaning about a backlog later in the season. We played Webbys just before Christmas on Knighton Park, and although not ideal conditions after the rain, the pitch was playable. The rest of the park was deserted as far as I could see. The pitch next to ours was probably playable, and at least one other, so there's 2 more games that could have taken place. However, it was 23rd Dec so I've no doubt people were happy to stay in bed. I appreciate this may take a bit of communication to sort out, but certainly during the bad months (definitely Dec/Jan, possibly Nov/Feb also) when it comes to a Wednesday or Thursday and the weather's looking bad, perhaps a message on here if there's possibly a pitch needed or going to be available may help, bit of cash between clubs for the use of it, etc.

Just a suggestion, as I don't think changing cups and/or numbers in divisions ever helps, there's always some teams that have too many games or not enough, and no-one will ever be satisfied.

Monkey boy.
Contacted the league early sunday a.m. to try to get a postponed match
across to knighton park as the pitch was playable but was told in no certain
terms that no one was to use it.just a thought by me as the changing rooms
were already open and only corner flags and nets needed and also told not
to swap pitch or else i was only trying to help the league out.
Yet on horsewell lane niffy swapped to our pitch to get a game played and
as far as im concerned if one pitch is playable get it played as long as it dont
wreck the pitch keeps the fixtures flowing and with no games on dec 30th gave
the pitch 2 weeks recovery time.
But have heard niffy may be in trouble because of it?

oily wrote:

Monkey boy.
Contacted the league early sunday a.m. to try to get a postponed match
across to knighton park as the pitch was playable but was told in no certain
terms that no one was to use it.just a thought by me as the changing rooms
were already open and only corner flags and nets needed and also told not
to swap pitch or else i was only trying to help the league out.
Yet on horsewell lane niffy swapped to our pitch to get a game played and
as far as im concerned if one pitch is playable get it played as long as it dont
wreck the pitch keeps the fixtures flowing and with no games on dec 30th gave
the pitch 2 weeks recovery time.
But have heard niffy may be in trouble because of it?

At least you tried! There were definitely playable pitches there, and empty changing rooms open. I don't think the state of the pitch affected our game particularly, even though we lost! I do wonder what the council/league deem as unplayable sometimes. I had a walk across Vicky Park yesterday and expected to see all the pitches in a state due to the weather, and none of them were, which suggested they'd not been played on for weeks. I know some parts of the park get waterlogged, but not the raised/higher areas. I appreciate they don't want them totally ruined, but as you say, there was a guaranteed 2 week break after the 23rd so they should have tried to get as many games on as possible.

Totally agree with you there is only so much you
can do and thats that.
At least playing you saved us both a night game and
we all hate them.

MonkeyBoy wrote:

oily wrote:

Monkey boy.
Contacted the league early sunday a.m. to try to get a postponed match
across to knighton park as the pitch was playable but was told in no certain
terms that no one was to use it.just a thought by me as the changing rooms
were already open and only corner flags and nets needed and also told not
to swap pitch or else i was only trying to help the league out.
Yet on horsewell lane niffy swapped to our pitch to get a game played and
as far as im concerned if one pitch is playable get it played as long as it dont
wreck the pitch keeps the fixtures flowing and with no games on dec 30th gave
the pitch 2 weeks recovery time.
But have heard niffy may be in trouble because of it?

At least you tried! There were definitely playable pitches there, and empty changing rooms open. I don't think the state of the pitch affected our game particularly, even though we lost! I do wonder what the council/league deem as unplayable sometimes. I had a walk across Vicky Park yesterday and expected to see all the pitches in a state due to the weather, and none of them were, which suggested they'd not been played on for weeks. I know some parts of the park get waterlogged, but not the raised/higher areas. I appreciate they don't want them totally ruined, but as you say, there was a guaranteed 2 week break after the 23rd so they should have tried to get as many games on as possible.

We play on Vicky Park yet haven't had a game on there for ages, last 2 seasons we've had no problems there but council seem to think otherwise. Nothing wrong with a mudbath in the middle of the pitch!

Or you could have a clause at the beginning of the season where if you do not want to be entered into the billy Walton you don't have to be. Then it's down to individual team decisions on that front. There still could be a back log of games though but should be teams free in divisions to play league fixtures

Allen654 wrote:

Or you could have a clause at the beginning of the season where if you do not want to be entered into the billy Walton you don't have to be. Then it's down to individual team decisions on that front. There still could be a back log of games though but should be teams free in divisions to play league fixtures

not a bad idea that

FC POCHIN wrote:

Allen654 wrote:

Or you could have a clause at the beginning of the season where if you do not want to be entered into the billy Walton you don't have to be. Then it's down to individual team decisions on that front. There still could be a back log of games though but should be teams free in divisions to play league fixtures

not a bad idea that

very good idea. Think most would enter but i like it! I said years ago i would like county cup to be voluntary and clubs can save admission fees

Widds wrote:

FC POCHIN wrote:

Allen654 wrote:

Or you could have a clause at the beginning of the season where if you do not want to be entered into the billy Walton you don't have to be. Then it's down to individual team decisions on that front. There still could be a back log of games though but should be teams free in divisions to play league fixtures

not a bad idea that

very good idea. Think most would enter but i like it! I said years ago i would like county cup to be voluntary and clubs can save admission fees

county cup is voluntary and has been for years

County cup is compulsory isn't it? As part of your annual subs.

Sparta3 wrote:

County cup is compulsory isn't it? As part of your annual subs.

errr NO

Not according to Dennis...

https://allianceleague.forumotion.com/t4220-what-should-the-season-consist-of-with-regards-silvery-stuff

Sparta3 wrote:

Not according to Dennis...

https://allianceleague.forumotion.com/t4220-what-should-the-season-consist-of-with-regards-silvery-stuff

dennis is wrong 14 pounds to enter county cups which is voluntary and has been for years

Dennis isn't wrong. I asked and you have to enter county cup competitions, or at least pay entry to the competition

MonkeyBoy wrote:

At least you tried! There were definitely playable pitches there, and empty changing rooms open. I don't think the state of the pitch affected our game particularly, even though we lost! I do wonder what the council/league deem as unplayable sometimes. I had a walk across Vicky Park yesterday and expected to see all the pitches in a state due to the weather, and none of them were, which suggested they'd not been played on for weeks. I know some parts of the park get waterlogged, but not the raised/higher areas. I appreciate they don't want them totally ruined, but as you say, there was a guaranteed 2 week break after the 23rd so they should have tried to get as many games on as possible.

Its been mainly down to pitch providers (councils) over the last few weeks. I can understand frustrations, but esp with moving pitch I agree with the league, if a pitch has been deemed unplayable and you play on it you risk peeing off the provider and losing that pitch in future, which helps no one. Its already been said there will be repocussions for those that did move, the league works hard liaising with councils to get pitches for teams and needs to protect that.

We all moan about poor quality pitches at times, so can't blame councils for trying to stop them getting destroyed, even if they seem to have been over cautious at times this winter.

As for fixtures/competitions - always going to have successful teams having a fixture backlog at the end of the season, part and parcel of being successful. Not to say it can't be improved, maybe change one of the cups... Have it so it doesn't start until Mid Jan, and teams can opt in (or opt out) by a set date (1st Dec eg) when they have an idea if they are going to struggle with fixture backlogs ( I.e if they've been knocked out of all the other cups already!)

We were highly culpable with regards the pitch move for the niffy vs NRI game, with myself making the initial suggestion and pushing for the game being moved. I am surprised the council called it off on that pitch but not the other two pitches at horsewell. If the ref cancelled it then that was a poor decision in my opinion. No offence to the ref

Believe the advance game wasnt down to the weather but the opposition not
being able to field a side.