Crossing the line of what is acceptable.

The Alliance League is unique in this County in that our 2300 players, 1300 registered users and countless supporters are trusted to make sensible use of this facility. Other leagues have tried it and pulled the plug because of the abuse directed towards their league officers and referees..
 
Unfortunately, this Forum is becoming so critical of the Committee that some may be thinking of asking whether their time working for the Alliance on a daily and often hourly basis is worth it.
 
It is inevitable that many committee decisions will not suit everyone but they are always made in good faith and with the information available at the time.

The Leicester Foxes saga is a case in point. It goes on and on and on at every opportunity. The decision was made, rightly or wrongly. The point has been made – just give it a rest, please.

Some comments on social media from a certain club have been extremely abusive and hurtful towards two committee members. The league is entitled to make a report to County and users of Facebook, and the like, need to know that someone not connected with the Alliance League is currently serving a two year ban from all football.

I know from my own experience that when you have spent so much time on the League to make it where it is today, and you see yourself being publicly and severely criticized then it is time to review your future with the Alliance. Let us hope that such criticism does not result in anyone looking elsewhere for their 'enjoyment'.

If you want to change things, speak to a committee member and ask about putting your name forward  at the AGM in June.

I considered locking this post but thought I would rely on common sense coming to the fore.

I see exactly where you are coming from but I don't think there has been any malicious posts on the forum from what I've seen. People are obviously frustrated at times and they use a public forum to vent there frustration.

Everyone makes mistakes when running a league, especially with so many teams and competitions. When mistakes are made you have to accept a little criticism but I'm sure everyone involved is big enough to take it on the chin.

From experience in playing in other Sunday leagues the Alliance is by far the best run league I have been involved in. Decisions were made at the time which were deemed best for the league. If teams use deceptive tactics regarding division placements then its shame on the team not on the league.

i dont think ive read anything malicious on the forum but there was an incident a few weeks back on twitter i am aware of, hopefully the culprit was reported to the f.a.
regarding foxes i think the general consensus is that the league had the wool pulled over their eyes so no blame laid there.
Heard some commonsense spoken recently towards the alliance hierarchy" go back to two up two down "........whats your opinion aussie owl?

the owl wrote:

i dont think ive read anything malicious on the forum but there was an incident a few weeks back on twitter i am aware of, hopefully the culprit was reported to the f.a.
regarding foxes i think the general consensus is that the league had the wool pulled over their eyes so no blame laid there.
Heard some commonsense spoken recently towards the alliance hierarchy" go back to two up two down "........whats your opinion aussie owl?

'Malicious' is not a word that I used. Persistent and serious criticism aimed at the Committee as a whole as well as individuals is to what I was referring. I have moderated some posts to take away references to individuals, if appropriate.

'Go back to two up and two down'? As Secretary of the League when it started in 1972, and as an officer ever since, I can confirm that it never happened. You are right - it would be the perfect situation. This could only happen if there were no resignations at any stage. There would also be fewer new teams joining. We can dream.

PS Who thanks the officers when sponsorship is obtained and subs reduced. Those same critics?

Unfortunately, there will always be players at amateur level who lack club loyalty and who will move on when the going gets tough. The reverse is also true. One league always used to place joining teams  in the bottom division. Imagine what would happen if a team from another league's Prem going into our Div 7.

In my personal opinion, the FA's watering down of sanctions against illegal resignations has a lot to answer for.

what i meant regarding the two up two down was....teams should not be allowed to negotiate you win the league or runners up you are promoted full stop.i understand it necessary to promote and relegate more than the two at times due to matters beyond the leagues control.

I actually believe that someone who works hard on the committee for the league, should be shown respect...i can understand questions and maybe remarks but when someone puts, and i have seen this, the committee is a joke, that, I feel has crossed the line. maybe mild and not really offensive but for me enough

Good points raised by Dennis but for me, the satisfaction of getting it right outweighs the criticism by far. I saw some pretty insulting stuff on Facebook recently, and, whilst I was initially angry, I then realised that the people doing the criticizing are a long way from getting their own houses in order. The Alliance League has bucked the trend and the hard work of the committee over the past 5 years is now paying off. Increased teams (when other leagues are losing teams hand over fist), maintaining a growing reputation as the best league to play in and an exceptional committee full of dedicated, talented people. We will always get some criticism, and I suppose we all knew the Leicester Foxes thing would come back our way as soon as they won the league, but many of the other divisions are very tight and competitive, so we do often get it right, don't we? I personally think the drastic measures in the summer of 2014 will mean the divisions are easier to fill this time round. Unfortunately we live in a jealous and highly critical blame-led society, but for every keyboard troll or unhappy club there are 10 genuinely happy ones. That makes it all worthwhile. We can improve - of course we can - but we get it right far more often than not.

On another point: I know of at least 3, if not 4 clubs this season who have faced massive struggles both on and off the pitch. It was fairly obvious a short way into the season that they were hugely out of their depth and would face a very, very difficult year. All of them were pretty much 'victims' of their own success, but also 'suffered' due to the vacuum of teams at the top through no fault of their own. But of course if you are struggling or put in the wrong division, the league isn't going to change that in, say, October so you face a weekly battle. I have been there with my own club a few times and it is difficult to say the least, and takes all the enjoyment out of football. For my own part, at the next committee meeting, I will be proposing that the loyalty and determination of these clubs is recognised and rewarded. These are not one-season wonder clubs but fairly long standing, loyal members of the league. They should be rewarded by a division that will help them rebuild next season but also get some help in other ways - and not just via a matchball! For every pot hunter there will be a team that struggles. I believe 90% of other clubs in the position of these 3 or 4 this season would have folded. These ones haven't. It may get dismissed out of hand, but I believe it is the right thing to do.

as one of the 2 clubs promoted 3 divisons and also being in the same division as foxes this season
I feel I would like to express my opinions on the subjects.
firstly it is not the alliance leagues fault for our problems this season,there are no major quality differences between divs 2-7 its 1 and the prem that is a different quality.when the divisions were announced and 1 saw the likes of carnabys,lda,clarendon park etc who had all been in div 5 with us a couple of seasons ago and still have 80% of the players they had then I knew we would compete,in fact if we had kept the same team that won div 5 last year we would have finished in the top 3 in div 2 this year.
so no it's not our 3 division hike that's caused us grief it's losing most of the team from last season(including one of the alliance leagues best keepers) just a couple of weeks before the start of the season
also I was due to have this season off for personal reasons but the new manager quit the sunday before
the first game and then the seceratary went a couple of weeks into the season.we have had to play people who we wouldn't normally touch just to get games played,which has resulted in fines the club has had to pay because these players get sent off or booked and then clear off,we have started quite a few games with 9 or 10 players and it has been a major problem for myself and blackie to keep it going

so no it's not the leagues fault it's last seasons players bottling it when put in division 2.
in royal oaks's case I think it's slightly different because their 3 division uplift meant they ended up in div 1 and that was in hindsight a step to far so it's been a great credit to them to not fold

now on to the foxes saga!
without them div 2 would have been very competitive this season,and there is no doubt that they have conned the league,but I think it is totally unacceptable for people to name individuals on this forum as being responsible, the alliance league is the best sunday football league in the county and probably beyond and has been for several years and people give up their free time unpaid to administer it,so personal abuse is not on.
perhaps in hindsight someone from the committee should have posted on here an explanation of what went on with the foxes before the start of the season so that people didn,t speculate for the rest of the season and all the accusations could have been avoided
I am assuming that foxes said they would fold if they were put in the prem and that a lot of the players
would not be playing this season so they would struggle staying in div 1 but it would be interesting to here from someone to confirm what really went on

Agree with the above from Dennis & Mark, the league doesn't need good committee members turning their backs on the league due to uncalled for personal abuse from keyboard trolls (especially when they don't want facts to get in the way of a rant)

Credit to the struggling teams this year (Pochin and Royal Oak to name two).

It is worth remembering that Leicester Foxes Old Boys won Division one and folded.

A new side reportedly with a new nucleus of players, with the same management team at the same ground was created.  They are called Leicester Foxes, based on the information provided and the reassurances that they were not the same group of players in both personnel and ability a decision was made to place the new side in Division Two.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and the above decision could now be questioned, did the league just get in wrong? was the information presented by the club misleading? were some names withheld deliberately by the club? or quiet simply have better quality players been attracted as the season has gone on due to the on pitch success?

Much like a team losing every week struggles to attract players, a successful side can have better players banging the door down.

Either way whatever the decision was made and can't be changed.  Lesson to be learnt going forward, almost certainly

Ok - for those who can figure out who I am, this is a doubly edged sword conversation for me. I debated if to comment with a league associated name or a club associated name. In truth, it probably doesn't really matter. I would make the same points regardless.

I have close links with the committee, and I witnessed first hand the tremendous work that they all do. The amount of effort and time that some individuals put in, for nothing more than the love of the game is beyond my comprehension. They are volunteers, and as time has proved very very good ones. Nobody associated with this league should forget that.

Before its commented back, yes they may get a tiny amount of honorarium payment, but as everybody can see from the public accounts. This is really nothing to write home about. In fact in some cases it will hardly cover the phone bills they get on a monthly basis.

To abuse these people personally, is completely out of line when its likely those people making the comments don't have a clue about the actual circumstances of what they are talking about.

Decisions are made through an entire range of ways. But they are very rarely made by an individual. for example discipline decisions,  are made by committee members with no club association. The constitution is decided by a separate meeting, with all committee members invited (with a high turnout). This is based on interviews (of which normally 3 members attend), forum comments, previous knowledge and a bunch of other information which is collected and presented.

If you do feel the need to abuse the committee based on the fact they may from time to time they may have in your opinion got judgments incorrect, as all collectives can, then it should be as collective your direct your grievances. To many times abuse it labelled towards those individuals who are the outfacing people. These are Stewart, James, Gordon & Morley. I bet many on this forum would struggle to name the other 8 odd people who make the league go round. The people who organize the cup finals, the league medals & trophies and again countless other tasks which are required to make the league what it is. These things don't just happen.

A lot of the time, people are upset with decisions that are taken, but in truth these aren't actually decisions. They are just the application of league rules. Which as a member of the league, we all subscribe to. Even then, most of these are dictated by the County, something the Committee has no control over. The other decisions, as I mention above, these are opinion based decisions. You could ask 2 people and they would disagree, you could ask 100 and they would all agree. The point of having multiple people making the decisions, is that all views are usually covered and explored. Very rarely of decisions unanimous, very rarely are all Committee members happy. But you accept it and move on to the next issue.

Now before I get accused of bias, those who can see they club I associated with (Seaton), you will see that this year we have been at the raw end of a lot of the decisions the committee has made.

We have been fined, we have been deducted points, we have caused postponements etc. We currently sit on -2 points in Division 1 having only actually gained 1 legitimate point.

Despite highlighting at the start of the season that this was way above the level we are capable off, the league wouldn't do anything to help us due to a variety of reasons. Including the fact they had been stung before, the resignation of other Div 1 teams, the need to balance existing teams with new teams.

I have my own opinions about this, and so does the other players in the team. It was unbelievable that they didn't take our requests seriously. But you will not find anywhere on this or any other publicly available social media direct criticism of the committee or individuals.

As a team, we didn't want to do the back door route of folding & re applying and tricking the league. Now that was our own morale compass that did that. If other teams have taken this route, is that the committees fault or the teams?

I can go on to highlight how we have closely worked with the committee over the season to ensure we can continue as a club but I think this would take to much time up. We've always been punished for our misdemeanors, but by having good open communication in the correct ways, sometimes we have been able to have a mutually agreeable resolution.  

I am sure there are many more teams who have similar stories who keep their opinions quite. Ultimately there some idiotic people who deem shouting loud is somehow going to change what has happened. Its a case of the bad being highlighted, the good being hidden. Or to be blunt, sh!t sticks!

I liken it to a referee on a pitch, how many times have you heard the phrase "I wouldn't do it for £30". Well just because this might not be face to face, the principle is the same. The criticism still echos around.

I agree with Dennis, use media as intended, hold constructive and informative debates. But think carefully about what you say. Sadly the truth is, without the strong committee we have, we wouldn't have the league we do. So be careful what you may wish for, you may just get it and i don't believe that will also be to our benefit.

damn fine post that

Think I need to edit my previous post....

Credit to the struggling teams this year (Pochin, Royal Oak & Seaton to name three).

Some good posts/points

Some great points made by Seaton, I would echo a lot of these, the league do a great job in trying circumstances, but there will always be a few that put the boot in because they don't understand business and the work that goes on behind the scenes!