Protection of Players

Is it me that just thinks that there has been an increase on poor tackles in local Saturday & Sunday League Football?

I've had 2 players consider finishing the club due to injuries that have been sustained in previous weeks. No-one is perfect and we may be a second late to a tussle but are the people that thrive on fouling being punished? My answer is No. Luckily in 7 seasons of mens football I haven't witnessed a major injury but it does worry me. I now know why some people have walked away from the game, we have work in the morning and can't afford going on the sick.

I feel Officials are likely to book a player for dissent than from the actual tackle itself.

Like to hear thoughts from club officials/refs/players....

I can't really comment about whether there has been an increase in bad tackles but I can certainly appreciate the comment about likely to book a player for dissent over a tackle.

There seems to be the perception that in Sunday league, harder (more dangerous?) tackles are expected/tolerated because, well, its Sunday league and referees should be more lenient.  I believe a foul is a foul and should be punished accordingly, whether that be a free kick, yellow or red card.  And I also agree with your point, people have jobs, Sunday league is meant to be about enjoying a kick about not getting your leg broken.

It  doesn't help the amount of abuse refs can end up taking for booking a player let alone considering sending someone off with a straight red.  Being yelled and sworn at for taking correct action makes it difficult for referees to clamp down on as it can be a pretty intimidating situation with referees having no protection on a Sunday morning game.  Maybe that's why they feel they have more reason to book a player for dissent than the actual tackle as it's more "sellable", I don't know?

I think education on both sides; clubs and officials, would be useful as to what counts as a different levels of punishment.  Referees are educated using a variety of standards of football, but maybe this needs to happen with clubs present too so everyone has the same understanding?  

Whether clubs AND officials have the time and desire to do this would be another question.  It's a tough one to answer, but a good one to discuss.

Don't know about the bad tackles increasing but I do feel there has been a huge decrease in referee's stamping it out at an early stage.

I have seen our lads (and I am sure many of your team have suffered this too) involved in games where a few teams have been unable to compete on the field so they resort to kicking lumps and the ref takes far to long to act and by the time they do, serious injury could have been suffered.

An early card to such a tackle would let them know that this will not be tolerated. Stamp your authority on the game early (if warranted of course and we have all been in the game long enough to know whichever end of the action you are on).

I am not saying brandish cards willy nilly but ref's do need to be seen to taking control early doors.

I do not think there are too many players/teams like this out there, but the one's that are need to be brought to book by the games ref.

Common sense and consistency is required IMHO.

absolutely spot on foxhunter we have had too many games in the last 5 seasons were they have
descended into chaos because of no early action taken on dissent, fouls and abusive language
players will always push the boundaries of what they can get away with if you let them it's just human nature.i do feel sorry fpr the refs who lose control of games it's not easy having 22 blokes in your face
for 90mins and after all is said and done no refs no games, but I do feel that some of them bring it upon
themselves by not acting sooner.

interesting points. I like to be lenient with the cards but NOT if a bad tackle ends up in the recipient crumpled in a heap on the floor - whether that is the first minute or the 90th. Yet as I put in a post last week, I personally have noticed a lot - and I mean a lot - more players SCREAMING for reds and insisting certain tackles are worse than they are. The phrase 'studs up ref' is becoming more common, and I am convinced this is because players are seeing so much football on TV and the bad points filter down to grass roots. Of course, it studs are shown then I would be only too happy to take the correct course of action within the laws of the game. I don't necessarily think that there are more bad tackles - I also think the Alliance League does great work in encouraging teams to play football the right way and the 'bad boys' in this league don't tend to last long. As for dissent, I personally think that that is still MUCH more common than bad fouls and refs are right to punish it. Dissent seems to be getting worse!

The first time a ref blows his whistle is the time the players know what they might get away with.
A peep for a foul or a half hearted signal tells the players everything about the ref.

The reverse is true of course.

It is not just the whistle, the signals and the cards but it is how the ref handles a tricky situation. Relying on cards to exert authority is not the only way. Keeping up with play and giving a decision in a way that shows that, right or wrong, the ref means it, is a good way forward.

Refs should also realise that he sets the standard for next week's ref.

Every week I play knowing that I will struggle to talk the next day after taking a hideous tackle. If I was that bothered I wouldn't play.

Some refs are great others are terrible. Part and parcel of Sunday league football

what! you keep getting tackled in the throat

now that is studs up

i have been told that i am card happy,,,,but i have sent two players off recently for bad tackles,, i also sent a player off for kicking the player who fouled him,,,if i see a tackle worthy of a card either yellow or red it doesnt matter to me what game it is,i have never really understood referee different as its sunday league (with a lot of saturday players) i will use cards.. it amazes me that on here people are saying card for bad tackles but when you do you either get challenged or abused..

the abuse is why i believe some referees do not caution or send off or indeed do and not send the report in. as dennis says this sets the standard for next weeks referee. what one does this week should not cause next weeks teams to say well last week ref let us do this or that.

also a foul is a foul anytime of the game,,have had calls off cant caution in first five mins or dont do it only a couple to go..

control for a referee is a big thing in any game, this is done by using the tools provided, one is communication, if he can get his message over talking to players then all well and good, other is decision making which needs to be fair and consistant.
if all this fails and the referee feels the need then he uses cards to help him.. this does not take away the fact that a card can be issued in the first minute for a bad tackle or anything else that deserves it.

as for blowing the whistle the referees are taught these days not to overuse the whistle and use varying blasts on the whistle so a little peep means stop game something is wrong,,if he blasts on the whistle loud and hard and long then the player will know that the offence is more serious

It's all about consistency, one week a referee will let things go and the next they might strict and pull out the cards. I think referees should be told at the beginning of the season use the cards as they would in the premier league AND any abuse or dissent is a card. Players will soon get the message on how to treat referees and what is appropriate.

Yes there will be a lot of cards in the first few games but if it's consistant players will get the message and respect the referee's decision.

thats how they are taught allen54,,, run the game to the laws of the game, because what you do this week affects what happens next week,,thats why when a referee turns up and cards people for offences the referee will get grief when he DOES THE JOB...because the refs a couple of weeks earlier were lenient

The whole arguements I hear players say, it seems refs are to concerned about someone shouting at a player that's try to break his leg. Totally understand language has to be controlled and dealt with, but sometimes commonsense helps. Get the moron who wants to harm the opposition off and maybe a ticking off for first foul language tirade. Must admit though the vast majority of refs in the alliance do a fantastic job and I certainly couldn't do it.

I'd be interested to know if there is any difference between the amount of bad tackles/dissent witnessed in Prem/Div 1 to the amount witnessed in lower divisions? And if there is a difference, is this due to standard of play or the standard of officiating? Or perhaps both?

I would doubt there is any marked difference

Perfect example was 2 weeks ago agiainst LKS. One of their players scissored one of ours from behind with one of the worst tackles I've ever seen (Should have been a straight red) One of our players says "That's a f***ing disgrace ref, lets have a bit of protection" our player got booked for swearing at the ref and the player who assaulted ours got a slap on the wrist.

Everyone knows who the rougher teams are, the stronger refs should be given those games.

all im saying is no ref =no game

wopman wrote:

all im saying is no ref   =no game  

What a silly comment! We are trying to improve the quality of our league and you are coming out with things like that.

I'm sure the refs on here want to hear the constructive criticism that we have to say. No one on here has said "The refs are S**t" we want to get the message across that some of the tackles flying around need punishing.

Towards the question of the tackles in higher leagues vs lower leagues I would say that the tackles are worse in the higher leagues as people generally care more and for that reason are normally bigger idiots.

SAFC_Pothunter wrote:

Towards the question of the tackles in higher leagues vs lower leagues I would say that the tackles are worse in the higher leagues as people generally care more and for that reason are normally bigger idiots.  

An unfair and sweeping statement, can't imagine this is based on any fact. I would agree with Mark, never seen any difference between Prem and Div 7 for me, having played in or against a fair number of sides from all

My views:

Different local FAs seem to have a slightly different approach, Cheshire FA (my home county) for example has a more tolerant approach in my experience to dissent, there is much more banter between refs and opposition and some things that would get you a booking for here will just laughed at by a ref in Cheshire.

On the flip side what is seen as a mistimed tackle or tasty 50/50 here in Leicestershire will get you a £10 fine in Cheshire.

Not saying there is a right nor a wrong just demonstrating there is a difference and a lack of consistency in our beautiful game.

With regards to things getting worse, I think not. The biggest change I have seen in the last 15 years in the Alliance is the number of refs that are approachable during the game has declined. There are some exceptions but as a rule I tend to see less common sense and decisions explained than I used too. Maybe the promotion system for refs doesn't help with this.

The other thing to remember is one of neutrality. A referee will be impartial, and one of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was: watch a game where you have no vested interest, where you don't particularly care who wins or loses. And see how many decisions the ref gets right. Then watch a game involving the team you support, and see how many you disagree with!

A few months back I had a rare Sunday without a game and went to watch one on Knighton Park. The away team were on the refs back for the first 20 minutes, virtually every time he blew his whistle against them there were shouts and moans. Yet I thought he got every decision pretty much spot on.

Some interesting comments and observations. To start (as a referee) my reply. I am still finding that many clubs are not confirming games. I have the choice of (a) not turning up (b) contacting the home club to get the game confirmed. I take option (b). I have reffed clubs in every division. Dissent seems to be more apparent in the higher than lower divisions .. in my opinion. I do not like to issue cards as a way of controlling a game but prefer to try and talk down situations. That said a bad tackle is bad whatever division and a card will be given if warranted. Every referee will have different levels of tolerance as to dissent. My overall attitude is talk to me (even if you swear) and i will talk back to you. Call me names in an abusive way will only ensure County FA get some pounds. Two principles of refereeing. Know the laws of the game. Man management. Most refs seem to tolerate more on a Sunday morning than they would on a Saturday afternoon. Argument in both cases as to if this is right or wrong? I will conclude by stating that if you have an appointed referee then the league has done its part. Greet the ref when they arrive (its not hard and costs nothing) and you will probably find a referee with a different attitude. Take the decisions that are given (the ref will not chnage his mind if you argue) and just enjoy the game. if you win thats fine. But to be a winner you firstly have to accept how to play and lose in a sporting manner!

Impartiality. A referee will (99.9%) turn up to referee a game and does not give an iota as to who wins. Put yourself in the referees boots however. Team A take decisions, have a bit of banter and generally just get on with the game. Team B argue the toss on every decision, moan about everything, surround the ref if something goes against them. Human nature will dictate and by the end of a game 50/50 becomes 49/51 or less. Work it out!

Well said, 'flag and whistle'.
Establishing a friendly relationship before the game by both parties is key and it starts when the game is confirmed, and a warm welcome. Everyone benefits.

So if, as a referee, i have to chase confirmation should i report this to the league? If a club is not welcoming on my arrival and the team gives me grief on every decision i have the option of stating this on the referees report form ... which i do after every game. Referees also just want to turn up, be made to feel welcome and enjoy a game played in a sporting manner. Not too much to ask?

flag & whistle wrote:

So if, as a referee, i have to chase confirmation should i report this to the league?

Yes, but bear in mind last minute fixture changes and ref reappointments.