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 Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.

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Fieldy
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Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Empty
PostSubject: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 5:27 pm

Without going down the route of ripping refs, what are the implications if a Ref does one thing in a match but his report says different.

When playing Niffy we received 3 yellow cards and obviously finished the game with all 11 players however, after receiving the relevant paperwork from FA it states 2 Yellows and 1 Red (straight) with the Refs report stating that he punched an opposing player, even after the game the player questioned the yellow and was told it was for dissent.

The referee has, according to FA been slow to respond to emails both from FA and myself and Dawn requested from higher authority to overturn the decision and reduce to yellow however, they have stated because the Ref put Red it stands.

I have had no response from the ref and the player in question can barely afford the £10 let alone £35 plus the 3 match ban.

What would happen if the Ref actually said, I'm sorry I got it wrong.
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man in black
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 5:56 pm

if the referee put his hand up and said sorry it was yellow and not red, the i am sure county would put it as a yellow,,,incident last year where a referee sent a player off then realised he was wrong in law rang fa and told them what happened and charges dropped,,,

first question i would ask is ,,,,was the player concerned ordered to leave the field of play,,,,as you say you finished with 11,,,so unless the player was sent off after the game he cant have been sent of during the game as he was still there at the end
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 6:14 pm

man in black wrote:
if the referee put his hand up and said sorry it was yellow and not red, the i am sure county would put it as a yellow,,,incident last year where a referee sent a player off then realised he was wrong in law rang fa and told them what happened and charges dropped,,,

first question i would ask is ,,,,was the player concerned ordered to leave the field of play,,,,as you say you finished with 11,,,so unless the player was sent off after the game he cant have been sent of during the game as he was still there at the end

After the Handbags incident the player in question then proceede to take the free kick and right on the whistle a throw in.

He was even told his Yellow was for dissent.
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Bucko
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 6:36 pm

Its a complete joke he shud never be allowed to ref again he shud be named and shamed.
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Bucko
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 6:41 pm

as soon as a club does something wrong they jump straight on us,different whens its a ref
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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 7:02 pm

They all wear the logo on their sleeves.
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Potts




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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 7:08 pm

Not good at all, our manager, their manager and all the players from both teams say none of our players got sent but because the ref has a senior moment and won't admit his mistake the player gets banned? Surly the county f.a can use a bit of common sense? Otherwise what are they there for?
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man in black
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 8:19 pm

i am sure this will go through the correct channels, and naming and shaming will not help anyones case,,,,,as i said if referees are wrong and put their hands up and say so it is listened to
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Aussie Owl
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 9:38 pm

Remember the explanation of the new procedures given by the County at the Alliance handbook meeting.

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Jim royle

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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeTue 20 Sep 2011, 10:22 pm

I think it's just got to a stage where anything said about a ref ends up being wrong! It doesn't matter wether the team in question is right or wrong! I 100% agree with respecting refs but I think it has to be a mutual thing! We shouldn't be rushing refs etc but refs have to get the big calls right! Ie this I don't know this player but he could be influencial to that team and now banned wrongly? I know we struggle for refs and it's great that so fair personally we have never had a no show but I still think that we pay x amount to someone every week to make decisions! If you get a bill and u think it's wrong you question it how is paying for ref questioning something he did wrong?
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NiffyA
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 10:41 am

Yeah I did consider this 1 strange when I heard about it, as Harrow did finish the game with 11 men and there were nothing but handshakes after the final whistle so there was no additional cards at this point.

I'm surprised that the referee hasn't put his hands up on this incident and recinded the red card and reduced this to yellow(which to be fair didn't seem a yellow at the time).
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 11:02 am

NiffyA wrote:
Yeah I did consider this 1 strange when I heard about it, as Harrow did finish the game with 11 men and there were nothing but handshakes after the final whistle so there was no additional cards at this point.

I'm surprised that the referee hasn't put his hands up on this incident and recinded the red card and reduced this to yellow(which to be fair didn't seem a yellow at the time).

Thanks for the comments, much appreciated mate
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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 12:06 pm

Jim royle wrote:
If you get a bill and u think it's wrong you question it how is paying for ref questioning something he did wrong?

Unless its a really cheap one in your favour....... Shocked are the refs really this bad at decision making? surely they 're the ones that have been on the courses, we're all human, theres always going to be mistakes, aswell as rulings in a teams favour, it seems to me that the refs job is getting harder and harder.
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bretty1
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 12:38 pm

this has all gone as crazy as the ref did. i was linesman and just waitin 4 the ref 2 blow the final whistle,he said 2 mins injury time,11 mins later a bad tackle went in,handbags kicked off. the ref alas got himself in a pickle, he did show harrow no 9 a red card 4 punchin. the poor lad had done nothin wrong whatsoever. the ref then blew up,everyone was round him trying 2 explain his errors. he did seem 2 mellow and both teams assumed hed show abit of common sense and realise it was just a mad minute. we as a club have so far recieved £70 in fines 4 it. we fought like crazy last season over a certain well known referee to no avail. that cost us alot more. i genuinly have sympathy with the player and harrow but its very rare things get overturned. we all need refs and 99% of the time we can live with thier decisions,they like us make mistakes,but theirs cost us to much. if the said harrow player is able 2 appeal i will certainly put my name in to back his plea of total innocense
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 12:45 pm

bretty1 wrote:
this has all gone as crazy as the ref did. i was linesman and just waitin 4 the ref 2 blow the final whistle,he said 2 mins injury time,11 mins later a bad tackle went in,handbags kicked off. the ref alas got himself in a pickle, he did show harrow no 9 a red card 4 punchin. the poor lad had done nothin wrong whatsoever. the ref then blew up,everyone was round him trying 2 explain his errors. he did seem 2 mellow and both teams assumed hed show abit of common sense and realise it was just a mad minute. we as a club have so far recieved £70 in fines 4 it. we fought like crazy last season over a certain well known referee to no avail. that cost us alot more. i genuinly have sympathy with the player and harrow but its very rare things get overturned. we all need refs and 99% of the time we can live with thier decisions,they like us make mistakes,but theirs cost us to much. if the said harrow player is able 2 appeal i will certainly put my name in to back his plea of total innocense

Cheers Bretty but our No.9 was shown the yellow and paperwork shows that, it was the issue with Mr Rutter when the 2 players went face to face, Rutter seen Red and our Nathan was shown a yellow, that is the one he chose to put down as red.
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Bucko
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 12:49 pm

thanks bretty and niffy A for you support means alot Smile,just wish he would hold his hand up and admit he was wrong
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Whistle Blower

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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 12:56 pm

So what are you saying he did wrong - get the wrong person on his report?
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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:03 pm

bretty1 wrote:
this has all gone as crazy as the ref did. i was linesman and just waitin 4 the ref 2 blow the final whistle,he said 2 mins injury time,11 mins later a bad tackle went in,handbags kicked off. the ref alas got himself in a pickle, he did show harrow no 9 a red card 4 punchin. the poor lad had done nothin wrong whatsoever. the ref then blew up,everyone was round him trying 2 explain his errors. he did seem 2 mellow and both teams assumed hed show abit of common sense and realise it was just a mad minute. we as a club have so far recieved £70 in fines 4 it. we fought like crazy last season over a certain well known referee to no avail. that cost us alot more. i genuinly have sympathy with the player and harrow but its very rare things get overturned. we all need refs and 99% of the time we can live with thier decisions,they like us make mistakes,but theirs cost us to much. if the said harrow player is able 2 appeal i will certainly put my name in to back his plea of total innocense

So it was a red card at the very end of the game, so there for it must stand, if by what you are saying is true.
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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:07 pm

How about the person who got the card, comes on here and explains exactly what the ref said to him, instead of everyone else speculating. I smell a rat.
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:11 pm

Hellboy wrote:
bretty1 wrote:
this has all gone as crazy as the ref did. i was linesman and just waitin 4 the ref 2 blow the final whistle,he said 2 mins injury time,11 mins later a bad tackle went in,handbags kicked off. the ref alas got himself in a pickle, he did show harrow no 9 a red card 4 punchin. the poor lad had done nothin wrong whatsoever. the ref then blew up,everyone was round him trying 2 explain his errors. he did seem 2 mellow and both teams assumed hed show abit of common sense and realise it was just a mad minute. we as a club have so far recieved £70 in fines 4 it. we fought like crazy last season over a certain well known referee to no avail. that cost us alot more. i genuinly have sympathy with the player and harrow but its very rare things get overturned. we all need refs and 99% of the time we can live with thier decisions,they like us make mistakes,but theirs cost us to much. if the said harrow player is able 2 appeal i will certainly put my name in to back his plea of total innocense

So it was a red card at the very end of the game, so there for it must stand, if by what you are saying is true.

No, there was no red card during or after the game except to 2 of the Niffy players, the No.9 yellow for our player was hilarious, the ref called him over, shown him the yellow, when asked what it was for the ref stated 'I remember your number coz you had your back to me', priceless however, you can't dispute a yellow apparently.

'Niffy A' will confirm the cards dished out and is what was originally said, 3 yellows to Harrow, 2 reds and a yellow to Niffy (on the night), after questioning the ref regarding the 3 harrow yellow cards on completion of the game he stated that 2 yellows (Dean Summers, Scott Love) were for Unsporting Behaviour and the other Yellow (Nathan Sutton) was for dissent, we then all got changed, went pub etc. etc.
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:18 pm

Hellboy wrote:
How about the person who got the card, comes on here and explains exactly what the ref said to him, instead of everyone else speculating. I smell a rat.

Let me just say, following discussions with county FA they too are backing me based on the fact that the ref, other than his report, has not stated whether or not either through email or phone conversation that he did indeed send the player off, county FA have asked National FA to recind and reduce to Yellow although they said no.

The Ref has not replied to my emails or phone message to explain.

Believe me, if it was a case of mistaken identity I would say and wouldn't go through all this chasing up.
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bretty1
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:21 pm

it really does seem the ref got in a bad state. hellboy states the red card must stand,normally id have to reluctantly agree. but the ref seems to have changed his mind afterwards. he obviously realised his mistake concernin no.9 , but u cant think ill change it then and pick a new culprit. i would ask the said committees to just accept mistakes happen and scrub the said players red card. its sad because 4 99 minutes the ref had done pretty well. just the last 2 mins. always fun in so called injury time
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Fieldy
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Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Empty
PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:22 pm

My initial question was about the implications of a Ref holding his hands up and saying he was wrong as it would seem that he is unwilling to so, I am now thinking that FA may not take too kindly to a Ref reversing their decision and that is why he is reluctant to own up
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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:38 pm

perhaps like said before, the no9 who is in question should come on and clear things up, its no use anybody else coming on and speaking for him, let the no9 speak for himself, and tell us all what happened, as a player you would know what card you are given.
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bretty1
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 1:42 pm

unfortunatly what a ref says is gospel. we hoped last season a certain ref wrote a major report concerning one of our lads. i did everything i could to get it thrown out. (including speaking to tht english f.a. no good mate,said player ended up with 12 match ban and near on £200 in costs. it wasnt even 4 violent conduct. everyone agreed with my pleas on the end of the phone but it didnt stop them taking the drastic actions they did. i hope u do better but just be warned.
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Whistle Blower

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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 3:34 pm

bretty1 wrote:
the ref did show harrow no 9 a red card 4 punchin.

Case closed?
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 4:00 pm

Whistle Blower wrote:
bretty1 wrote:
the ref did show harrow no 9 a red card 4 punchin.

Case closed?

He didn't though (get shown a red), Dean Summers No.9 shown dubious yellow for basically being there, I have paperwork with Dean Summers - Yellow for Unsporting Behaviour.

I'm sorry but those who know me would know I wouldn't come on here spouting the odds without cause, we even said after the game that the club would pay the £10 as he never did a thing to warrant a yellow even.

Ask Niffy A, he can vouch for all the cards that were dished as he was stood there and confirms my initial statement.

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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 4:23 pm

Ahhh the famous Friday night match where all hell let loose, after the final whistle went that is, i heard about that game, i'm not surprised the ref got confused with what was going on, it cant be much fun having 30 or more blokes running up to you in your face, all at the same time, i'd have booked the lot of you for that sort of behaviour. Smile

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bretty1
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 4:41 pm

dont know about hellboy more like choirboy mate. no one got hurt or injured. some girly bitchin and handbags that was it. the ref obviously got himself in a flap. when i asked him to confirm what he had done he said 2 of our lads were sent off 4 violent conduct as was the no 9 for harrow. i tried 2 explain i walked towards the melee with the said player and he wasnt involved. he said he saw him throw a punch and was sendin it in. with whats been written and speakin to niffy a it sadly does confirm the ref really did lose the plot
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NiffyA
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 4:45 pm

hahahaha Hellboy you make me laugh, when the final whistle went everything was ok, it was 5 minutes before that and about 10 minutes after the ref should have blown for full time when things got a little out of hand.

I wasn't on the field at the time but the ref definitely only dished out 2 red cards - unfortunately both for our players - the other 2 yellows - were for the Harrow Players. I did think to myself at the time that we're playing at a minus 2 man advantage and needed to defend.

No way was 3 red cards dished out during this game because I'd have felt a little more comfortable for that last 5 minutes, expecting the ref to possibly play another 25 minutes injury time...on top of the 15 he'd already played. Very Happy
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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 4:51 pm

Laughing choirboy Laughing call me that to my face on the pitch, i'd give you a straight red alright, it wouldn't be red card though. Cool
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 4:58 pm

Hellboy wrote:
Ahhh the famous Friday night match where all hell let loose, after the final whistle went that is, i heard about that game, i'm not surprised the ref got confused with what was going on, it cant be much fun having 30 or more blokes running up to you in your face, all at the same time, i'd have booked the lot of you for that sort of behaviour. Smile


That would have been fairer than singling out I suppose.

Ok, ok, debate over as it will continue going round in circles, I suppose it's a case of if the Ref admits he was wrong it goes to Yellow, if not then it stands at Red.

Can this please be the last word, lol.

Rant over
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Fieldy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 5:01 pm

NiffyA wrote:
hahahaha Hellboy you make me laugh, when the final whistle went everything was ok, it was 5 minutes before that and about 10 minutes after the ref should have blown for full time when things got a little out of hand.

I wasn't on the field at the time but the ref definitely only dished out 2 red cards - unfortunately both for our players - the other 2 yellows - were for the Harrow Players. I did think to myself at the time that we're playing at a minus 2 man advantage and needed to defend.

No way was 3 red cards dished out during this game because I'd have felt a little more comfortable for that last 5 minutes, expecting the ref to possibly play another 25 minutes injury time...on top of the 15 he'd already played. Very Happy

And thanks for clarifying the red card count, cheers.

Supposed to be writing up reports today aswell, will have to blame helly I suppose.
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Hellboy
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 5:02 pm

Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. BaldrefwithRedCard

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Polska legend II
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PostSubject: Re: Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong.   Implications of a Ref holding their hands up and declaring they were wrong. Icon_minitimeWed 21 Sep 2011, 6:48 pm

it was getting very dark that night, how did the ref manage to add on all those minutes? were you playing in the dark?
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